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Thread: How to train an effective dog (Part 1)

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    Occasionally Replies Back Smokin04's Avatar
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    Next installment still in draft...will cover basic obedience techinques and commands. Sit, down, heel, stay, escape training, voice inflection.
    Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

    "I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all"- Gen. James Mattis (Forcefully retired by Obama)

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    Don't get too close, I bite! Innkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokin04 View Post
    Next installment still in draft...will cover basic obedience techinques and commands. Sit, down, heel, stay, escape training, voice inflection.
    Hey great Thread so far Smokin, will this next segment cover my biggest issue? I have as posted on the other forum a 2 year old Chocolate Lab, I use her for upland birds and she does great at that learned from the older Yellow's our family has. My biggest issue with rain is her jumping, she gets all excited and worked up when I take her anywhere, or she sees a new face, and tries jumping up on them for attention, she is like a 5 yr old with ADHD. My mother she still tries grabbing the cuff of her shirt or coats with her teeth, as a puppy she did it to me but a "no" and a light cuff has broke her of this...so far with everyone but my mom, who I think is afraid of hurting her and does not give her the light cuff. My biggest issue is trying to curb the jumping, do you think the choke chain will do this? or what would be the best method?

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    Occasionally Replies Back Smokin04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Innkeeper View Post
    Hey great Thread so far Smokin, will this next segment cover my biggest issue? I have as posted on the other forum a 2 year old Chocolate Lab, I use her for upland birds and she does great at that learned from the older Yellow's our family has. My biggest issue with rain is her jumping, she gets all excited and worked up when I take her anywhere, or she sees a new face, and tries jumping up on them for attention, she is like a 5 yr old with ADHD. My mother she still tries grabbing the cuff of her shirt or coats with her teeth, as a puppy she did it to me but a "no" and a light cuff has broke her of this...so far with everyone but my mom, who I think is afraid of hurting her and does not give her the light cuff. My biggest issue is trying to curb the jumping, do you think the choke chain will do this? or what would be the best method?
    A choke chain will fix this yes.

    Simple answer (inducive method), ignore the dog when it's jumping (negative punishment, withholding of positive attention while acting improperly). Then praise the dog (give positive attention) when it's not jumping. Holding your knee out in front of you will often work too. Eventually, the dog will put 2 and 2 together and figure this out. Unfortunately, it may take longer than your patience for the dog to figure it out. So in this scenario I would use the compulsion method below.

    A choke (compulsive method) is a much more simple and quick fix. Put the choke chain on. Leave the leash connected to it when you know the dog will jump. Yes the dog will be dragging around a leash for a few minutes, no big deal. Put the dog in a situation that will make them jump, basically setting the dog up for failure. When the dog begins to jump, step on the leash close enough to where the dog gets corrected before they can jump all the way up. (In other words, its no good to step on the END of the leash in this scenario...you want to step where the leash just begins to touch ground.) The idea is to step where the leash will have enough slack to correct the dog when jumping ONLY. No reason to be pulling the dog towards the ground by stepping too high (closer to the collar) on the leash. The reason this is so effective is because the dog is correcting themself just by jumping. The mere act of jumping gives them a collar correction. They will learn VERY quickly that jumping without being told = pain.

    But Smokin, won't my dog always fear jumping?

    I like that you're thinking like that. That's called a "negative transfer of learning". But in this situation, no the dog wont for two reasons. 1) You have control of the leash when you step on it. Meaning, the dog corrects himself when the behavior is UNWANTED. 2) When the behavior is WANTED, you can command the dog to "HUP" (or what ever command you use to tell Rain to jump) and simply leave your foot OFF THE LEASH. The dog learns it's okay to jump ONLY when told.

    Give it a try and let me know.
    Last edited by Smokin04; 08-06-2014 at 05:18 AM.
    Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

    "I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all"- Gen. James Mattis (Forcefully retired by Obama)

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    Thanks for the info I will put into effect today and see how it goes, other then the jumping she is a good dog does not wander off when off her leash and even comes right back when called if she see's something of interest, like a cat. I just want her more reliable around strangers, especially kids, I hate leaving her home when I go to the kids baseball or soccer games.

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    Okay then, to business. Here are some Basic Obedience techniques.

    Teaching their name.

    This is VERY easy. When the dog is around you, call their name. When they look at you or come to you, reward them with a treat or toy and lots of praise. Reinforce this behavior until you’re comfortable that they in fact recognize their name.

    The Sit.

    Sitting is the most important initial command a dog should learn. The reason for this is because it is the basis for most following commands, positions, and actions. By the dog learning sit first, you will be rewarded with a “positive transfer of learning.” What does that mean to you? It means that when your dog learns to sit consistently, you can move onto “Stay”, “Heel”, “Down”, etc. more easily. You can do this technique in NUMEROUS different ways. To avoid writing a novel, I will walk you through one Inducive method, and one compulsion method.

    Sit: (Inducive technique)

    Having a treat or toy in your right hand, stand (or kneel, not when using compulsion though) directly in front of the dog at end of leash. End of leash is 4-5 feet directly in front of the dog with the leash attached to the active ring of the choke chain, but not taught and not touching the ground. Make sure the treat or toy is observable (but not necessarily visible, meaning they can smell it and deduce it’s in your hand) to the dog. Get the dogs attention. Usually saying their name will work (but don’t overdo it…we’re teaching the sit, not their name). Once you have the dogs attention, smoothly raise your arm in an upward, arcing motion (keeping your arm rigid) to a point just above the dog’s head and give the command of “Sit”. The natural movement of the dog’s head looking up will want to aid the dog in the “sit” position. Some dogs will pick this up very quickly. It is okay to repeat this arm motion until the dog completes the task. You will know if your motion is correct by the dog having to look UP at the back of your hand/fist. If the dog needs a bit of help, you can place your left palm on the base of the dogs tail and apply GENTLE pressure while re-stating the command of “Sit”. The MOMENT the dog’s butt hits the floor, IMMEDIATELY reward the dog with the treat and EXPLOSIVE, EXCITED PRAISE!! Repeat this procedure until Fido is sitting pretty every time.

    Sit: (Compulsion method)

    Usually the “Sit” is learned using the above method, but sometimes you get a real knuckle head for a dog that needs a bit more aggressive lesson. With that being said, begin by positioning yourself facing the dog at the end of leash. Review the inducive method above. How you command the dog is no different for either method. The same upward arcing of the hand paired with the verbal command of “Sit.” The difference is, now if the dog chooses not to sit, you verbally correct the dog with a stern “NO” while quickly and sternly applying UPWARD pressure on the choke chain applying a collar correction. The “NO” and the collar correction MUST BE at the same time. Remember my previous words about timing? This is where those skills come into play. If the “NO” and the choke do not happen at the same time, the dog will not pair the word “NO” with a mistake. As soon as you can, reinforce the command of “Sit”. There should be no delay in this issue of the command. It should be as fast as this: NO/Collar correction, Sit. As fast as you can read that is as fast as it should happen. If 2-3 attempts at this fail, you should resort to “Escape” train the dog into the correct position.

    So how do I escape the dog?

    Escape training

    Escape training is when you manipulate the choke chain long enough to maneuver the dog into the correct position. Meaning, apply the choke to the dog, forcefully manipulate the dog into the correct position and then release the choke. The methodology behind this technique is that the dog is experiencing pain in every position OTHER than the correct one. This method is pretty hard on the dog and should be used sparingly. However, the “Sit” and the “Heel” are often the commands where escape methods are most effective. I’m not sure if what I’m explaining makes sense, PM me if you need more clarification.

    Down: (Inducive method)

    Once the “sit” is established and the dog is comfortable performing the task repeatedly, we can move on to the down. From the sit position (dog) and the end of leash position (you), put a treat in your right hand. You want to thumb the treat in the palm of your hand, but leave your fingers extended. With your arm fully locked out (extended), move your arm in a downward swinging motion (like you’re swimming) towards the ground between the dogs front paws and speak the command of “Down.” The dog should follow the scent of the treat with their nose towards the ground where you’re pointing. Once the dog “downs” like you want them to, immediately reward them with the treat AND explosive praise! Try this a few times. If it doesn’t work, you may try turning your hand over so the dog can see the treat. Coax the dog towards the treat by reiterating the “down” command, and use your hand as a barrier between the dog and the treat. Once the dog performs the task, release the treat from your hand and praise excitedly.

    Down: (Compulsion method)

    From the sit position (dog) and the end of leash position (you), put the leash in your right hand. With your arm fully locked out (extended), move your arm in a downward swinging motion (like you’re swimming) towards the ground between the dogs front paws and speak the command of “Down.” If the dog does not perform, then step closer to the dog, give a swift choke on the chain in a DOWNWARD motion with a harsh verbal “NO!” Again, timing is critical. Reinforce the command of “Down” immediately after the “No”, in the same sentence. If you are still failing to succeed at this, give the dog a command he/she knows like “Sit” and reward the dog and finish the session for now. You ALWAYS want to end every session on a positive note. NEVER, EVER, EVER, end the session on a negative note or with a correction. It will cause numerous psychological/emotional training issues with the dog. The dog might even begin to fear you. Not good.

    This upward and downward chain manipulation, why is that important?

    I’m glad you asked. The principle behind this is called “Opposition Reflection.” When someone pushes or pulls you in a direction, the body will have a tendency to go with the force to ease the strain of the force being exerted on the body. If you strain or fight the direction of the push, it increases the force of the push. It’s no different with a choke chain. When you pull on a chain in a direction, the dog needs to follow in the correct direction to alleviate the force of the choke. If they choose not to follow, then they get corrected harsher, solely because of their choice. Make sense?

    I'll cover Stay, Heel, and voice inflexion shortly.
    Last edited by Smokin04; 08-09-2014 at 11:48 AM.
    Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

    "I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all"- Gen. James Mattis (Forcefully retired by Obama)

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    Anti-social Behavior Slippy's Avatar
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    Excellent Smokin'! Thanks again.

    One thing I have tried to teach all of my dogs is Sit means Sit AND STAY. Down means Down AND STAY until released. I don't know if that is a good thing or not but it is how I've trained. Thoughts?

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    Thanks smokin! This is working well for me. I am training my pups using your inductive techniques and it is working great so far. I have yet to use the compulsive stuff. So far i have taught come, sit, lay down and shake. Keep it coming.

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    Occasionally Replies Back Smokin04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippy View Post
    Excellent Smokin'! Thanks again.

    One thing I have tried to teach all of my dogs is Sit means Sit AND STAY. Down means Down AND STAY until released. I don't know if that is a good thing or not but it is how I've trained. Thoughts?
    Slippy,

    The stay should be a seperate command IMO. Especially for attack dogs. If they're just doing obedience, then it can be user preference. But...I prefer each command to be seperate. The reason being is each individual command should be a rewardable action. The stay by itself could be used when walking, patrolling, searching, etc. Down and stay, sit and stay, maybe too much when initially training a dog as well. These are all just preference, but like I said...I prefer stay to be its own command.
    Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

    "I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all"- Gen. James Mattis (Forcefully retired by Obama)

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    Bump for an update.

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    Occasionally Replies Back Smokin04's Avatar
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    Yeah Ark...I've been super busy at work these past weeks. I will update with the next installment shortly.
    Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

    "I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all"- Gen. James Mattis (Forcefully retired by Obama)

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