Clueless Delusional 'Preppers'

[MountainGirl]

It's astonishing to read some of the posts of people in prepper forums who think they are prepping for SHTF. I'm not talking about folks who homestead, or put up a large food supply, or stock tons of ammo/weapons...but even some of them...

I'm talking about those who live near, or in the middle of, 1,000+ population and up and think they will survive.

I wasn't born yet during the Depression - but my Aunt lived through it, in a city, and she spoke of the gardens in their (and everybody's) back yards, and how they got by. People today are the farthest from being self-sufficient - not only to feed themselves but in mentality too. Expecting rescue, expecting others to provide. Believing their neighbors will feed them, or wont steal their food. Not gonna happen.

But the really astonishing thing is they think well, if a nuke or EMP hits far enough away, we'll be okay here in our city...WRONG! Before the 'cloud' even dissipates, everything will stop. There will be no more shipments of food from one part of the country to another; I don't need to explain why that is.

I get that not everyone can move out of population centers. What I don't get is why they think they'll survive with, you know, a little food & guns on hand. Delusional. Clueless.

[A Watchman]

This one is too easy to play devil's advocate, so I will line up first, with a realistic worldview.

Delusional and clueless? Perhaps not. Life is filled with trade offs.

You seem to be suggesting that anyone who has not chosen a life of solitude (like you and Tom) and lives in/near a population of 1,000 plus should just say screw it. Preparing for a SHTF event can have many levels of preparedness and intent, other that long term survival. Some may want to soften the blow, lengthen the survivability chances or even go out on their own terms etc. .... I would suggest that your situation carries no guarantees as well. One thing is certain, life is sure unpredictable.

I would also think that an acceptable trade off for many who are prioritizing life's pleasure's such as career, entertainment, social activities, conveniences, and luxuries along with a preparedness mindset and a timeline that fits into their lifespan .... that a middle of the road approach delivers acceptable odds. As with everything in this life, it usually boils down to the math.

[hawgrider]

The whole "prepping" mantra is humorous to me. Most of this new movement of turds through a fan, emp blah blah blah is kinda funny to me. I chuckle quite often at the tinfoil hat crowd as they wrap up and secure their electronics blah blah blah.

Good lord I don't need no stinken electronics if turds break the fan blades. I don't need a prepper high rise with like minded nutcases.

Did my grandparents wrap their cell phones and tablets in prep for emp blah blah blah? No they didn't. Do I ? Hell no. People are such wimps today that they worry about elctronics ha!

To tell ya the truth I dont worry about any of it. When its my time its my time the good lord will decide that.

[A Watchman]

When its my time its my time the good lord will decide that.

There is nothing that can be said, that is closer to the truth than this ^^^^^^. No one gets to play God, but you can sometimes and with intent, play the odds. There are hard core preppers who devote their entire being to a survival worldview and their are others who use it as a smart preparedness life style. However let's not forget that all of us have individual interests that we fill our spare time with; motorcycles, travel, cars, camping, entertainment etc.. and even prepping. Whatever grabs one's fancy, huh?

[Gambit]

It happened before, it can happen again.
It happened there, it can happen here.
It happened to that person, it can happen to you.
No one is immune to the trials and tribulations of life.
^ that's my own quote^

its a matter of time that history will repeat its self

[BucketBack]

It is GOD who will decide my fate and help me. I also think it's prudent to obtain the knowledge available to help yourself out

[TJC44]

A few years ago,I got bit by the "prepper bug". Starting planning, stocking up, looking for better locaztions,etc.,especially with Barry in office.
While I still keep working to maintain myself and Mrs TJC over a longer than normal "incident", I have tempered my goals somewhat to align my plans with realities, such as her health, budgets, employment, etc.

[MountainGirl]

This one is too easy to play devil's advocate, so I will line up first, with a realistic worldview.

Delusional and clueless? Perhaps not. Life is filled with trade offs.

You seem to be suggesting that anyone who has not chosen a life of solitude (like you and Tom) and lives in/near a population of 1,000 plus should just say screw it.

Not at all, but they can take that approach if they want. I've admittedly got a thing for informed choices. Choose whatever you want, but don't base it on invalid information. Like 'oh, the govt will take care of us' etc. Even if that was the govt's well meaning (or not) intent - the math says the capability is not there.

Here's part of a recent post from elsewhere:



...the idea that a nuclear exchange will leave the globe a glowing Christmas ornament, devoid of life, is a myth. Even with modern nukes, many of us have a very good chance at survival. Not just surviving but thriving, if we stay positive, and are proactive. ...
The first sentence is probably valid, imo, and if it's not nobody will be around to worry about it...so okay so far. But the rest of it doesn't seem to take into account the actions of the survivors... and it's the mentality of today's wired-in survivors - as compared to the mentality and skillsets people used to have - and the more that are around you from the start, the worse it will be.



Preparing for a SHTF event can have many levels of preparedness and intent, other that long term survival. Some may want to soften the blow, lengthen the survivability chances or even go out on their own terms etc. .... I would suggest that your situation carries no guarantees as well. One thing is certain, life is sure unpredictable.
Agree totally that our situation has no guarantees. I cant even promise you we'll survive this winter. And you have a valid point about not assuming why others prep; their reasons are their own and are fine, imo, as long as their decisions are based on something realistic.


I would also think that an acceptable trade off for many who are prioritizing life's pleasure's such as career, entertainment, social activities, conveniences, and luxuries along with a preparedness mindset and a timeline that fits into their lifespan .... that a middle of the road approach delivers acceptable odds. As with everything in this life, it usually boils down to the math.
Yeah, trade offs. For me, it was never the math, it was heart. My grandmother used to say, It's not life's problems that are so damn hard; it's life's choices. For most of my life I chose to live in an environment I abhorred to be near the ones I loved. It was only after most of them were gone that I was able to live where I thrive...(and brought the remaining loved one along with me, lol).

Always trade-offs. Only we can set our own priorities, and sometimes it's not an easy choice; but for me it damn well better be an informed one if I have to make a choice, and live with it.

[OSFG]

I like most of the comments on here so far. This matches up with my belief structure very well. In the end it is most of us who delude our selves into some self gratifying state of "Oh yeah, I'm ready"

Some people I know think because they live next to a federal park or state Park that they have easy sustainable hunting and fishing after a SHTF situation. In my mind I see 2, 000 fishing poles lined up around that lake, people shitting all over the place, wild game being driven away from the water source, and folks accidentally or intentionally shooting one another every other day.

Do you know what one of the main drivers of expansion out of the original colonies into areas such as Tennessee and Kentucky were based on? Finding new hunting grounds, because the ones closer had been hunted out. And that was with a very small population.

Those of you out in the Arizona, Utah, New mexico area... How much actual gardenable ground do you see there that is not completely reliant on irrigation through water pumping apparatus? How much wild game do you think is actually in those sparsely vegetated areas? Now imagine your local population growing by a factor of about 5 to 10 based on relatives and extended family of people living in those areas coming home to be in a "Remote" area away from harm.

I prep my mind. I will live a fairly nomadic life through any severe SHTF event. Moving from place to place, trying to stay ahead of populous movements. I will use my brain to survive and keep my family alive, until I get to my final area. Then I will fiercely defend that from others who want to enter it. All I know is that anyone who thinks that have a plan for SHTF better learn a thing or two about realities of life. A plan rarely survives the first contact....Knowing the intent and end state does.

my2c

[MountainGirl]

The whole "prepping" mantra is humorous to me. Most of this new movement of turds through a fan, emp blah blah blah is kinda funny to me. I chuckle quite often at the tinfoil hat crowd as they wrap up and secure their electronics blah blah blah.

Good lord I don't need no stinken electronics if turds break the fan blades. I don't need a prepper high rise with like minded nutcases.

Did my grandparents wrap their cell phones and tablets in prep for emp blah blah blah? No they didn't. Do I ? Hell no. People are such wimps today that they worry about elctronics ha!

To tell ya the truth I dont worry about any of it. When its my time its my time the good lord will decide that.

Excellent post! And not just cause I agree, though I do. Our way of life up here is by choice, rather than a SHTF mindset, so our 'preps' are normal for being snowed in months at a time... good supply of wood, food, hand tools (if there's not enough sun & run out of gen gas, etc). My only EMP prep is that waterbucket thing to drop in the well. It's an exhausting s.o.b. to haul water up here in the summers from either the lake 5mi away (if p/u is runnin), or the pond 300' below (if it's not). Tom did that for 8 yrs before me, I did it for 2. Winter snow is a gift.

My turn to play devil's advocate, lol.

Other than your family, who I assume you'd let in, how many starving folks will be crawling your way, and will you shoot them when they reach your gate?
:biggun:................:hungry::hungry::hungry::h ungry::hungry:

[BucketBack]

Happiness is a Belt Fed

[MountainGirl]

....However let's not forget that all of us have individual interests that we fill our spare time with; motorcycles, travel, cars, camping, entertainment etc.. and even prepping. Whatever grabs one's fancy, huh? Yeppers! Gotta love all that divers.... oops. wrong thread. 'scuse. :halo:

[Mister Mills]

I live in a county that has 1,000,000 people in it, and if a mushroom cloud goes off, I am going to hit the deck, in more ways than one. I figure that I will have to kill my way out of that sit-rep, because there is no way that I can get out. There is madness here on a normal day; and I think there is a spirit of murder too, Tampa-St Pete-Clearwater is a strange place to live in.

There is something wrong with these people, so like I said, I will probably have to kill some of them. Who wants to do that? But some of the local citizens would be happy to kill me, in a survival situation. So, I weighed things out, and that is what I came up with. In closing, some of the folks on prepper/survival forums, are deceived by their own mushy thinking, and they won't survive a mushroom cloud event.

My life circumstances over many years have been very, very serious, and they made me serious. I can be downright frightening in ways, and that is good, because I mean what I say. Many of today's generations don't comprehend that there are men like me, but there are. Thanks for the thread.

[MountainGirl]

I like most of the comments on here so far. The match up with my belief structure very well. In the end it is most of us who delude our selves into so self gratifying state of "Oh yeah, I'm ready"

Some people I know think because they live next to a federal park or state Park that they have easy sustainable hunting and fishing after a SHTF situation. In my mind I see 2, 000 fishing poles lined up around that lake, people shitting all over the place, wild game being driven away from the water source, and folks accidentally or intentionally shooting one another every other day.

Do you know what one of the main drivers of expansion out of the original colonies into areas such as Tennessee and Kentucky were based on? Finding new hunting grounds, because the ones closer had been hunted out. And that was with a very small population.

Those of you out in the Arizona, Utah, New mexico area... How much actual gardenable ground do you see there that is not completely reliant on irrigation through water pumping apparatus? How much wild game do you think is actually in those sparsely vegetated areas? Now imagine your local population growing by a factor of about 5 to 10 based on relatives and extended family of people living in those areas coming home to be in a "Remote" area away from harm.

I prep my mind. I will live a fairly nomadic life through any severe SHTF event. Moving from place to place, trying to stay ahead of populous movements. I will use my brain to survive and keep my family alive, until I get to my final area. Then I will fiercely defend that from others who want to enter it. All I know is that anyone who thinks that have a plan for SHTF better learn a thing or two about realities of life. A plan rarely survives the first contact....Knowing the intent and end state does.

my2c

There it is.

Even up here, the game might go quick & back even deeper. We're thinking maybe the critters below will flee in this direction initially and we can harvest as much as possible...but even that's just a wild ass guess. Either way, one of the skills I'm working on this spring for fun is the best way to process/preserve meat - without freezer/canning/etc. Smoke/fire-dry is my first thought...still reading/researching.

[MountainGirl]

I live in a county that has 1,000,000 people in it, and if a mushroom cloud goes off, I am going to hit the deck, in more ways than one. I figure that I will have to kill my way out of that sit-rep, because there is no way that I can get out. There is madness here on a normal day; and I think there is a spirit of murder too, Tampa-St Pete-Clearwater is a strange place to live in.

There is something wrong with these people, so like I said, I will probably have to kill some of them. Who wants to do that? But some of the local citizens would be happy to kill me, in a survival situation. So, I weighed things out, and that is what I came up with. In closing, some of the folks on prepper/survival forums, are deceived by their own mushy thinking, and they won't survive a mushroom cloud event.

My life circumstances over many years have been very, very serious, and they made me serious. I can be downright frightening in ways, and that is good, because I mean what I say. Many of today's generations don't comprehend that there are men like me, but there are. Thanks for the thread.

Thanks for sharing that, Mr Mills. I'm not going to dishonor you (or anyone else here) by asking why the hell you dont get out?; you have obviously made some hard choices and I respect you for that. May God and luck be always on your side. Warmest regards and stay safe, sir.

[MountainGirl]

It is GOD who will decide my fate and help me. I also think it's prudent to obtain the knowledge available to help yourself out

And that, imo, is our saving grace.
We do what we can - and then Let go, let God.

[Mister Mills]

Thanks for sharing that, Mr Mills. I'm not going to dishonor you (or anyone else here) by asking why the hell you dont get out?; you have obviously made some hard choices and I respect you for that. May God and luck be always on your side. Warmest regards and stay safe, sir.

I am too old to leave, but I know that if an EMP occurs here, it will be Pandemonium. Remember, there are some real hard corps men left, even in this day and age. And this one will stay put, and whatever happens, well it just happens. God Bless.

[Unclefred]

The problem with most peoples view on a shtf scenario is that it's colored by TV, Movies and online paranoia. It assumes everyone will be at their worst and all for themselves. I don't think that is the historic reality of humanity in major crises. With exceptions, but exceptions don't make the rule.

[A Watchman]

Delusional Preppers you say? Ever heard some of these guys talk about how often they get laid?

Talk about delusional, huh?

[MountainGirl]

The problem with most peoples view on a shtf scenario is that it's colored by TV, Movies and online paranoia. It assumes everyone will be at their worst and all for themselves. I don't think that is the historic reality of humanity in major crises. With exceptions, but exceptions don't make the rule.

I hope your right, but I'm wondering... Did the historic reality of humanity include several generations (1980's to now) of people with a strongly developed sense of instant desire fulfillment and entitlement? There are still lots of people who have a strong work-ethic; hopefully there's enough of them and they're not to old... but even they will put self/family first; as they should, imo.

There's still the matter of logistics/resources. Local help may be provided, for a time, while there's something there to help with. Outside help might be long in coming, if it does.

[Mister Mills]

The problem with most peoples view on a shtf scenario is that it's colored by TV, Movies and online paranoia. It assumes everyone will be at their worst and all for themselves. I don't think that is the historic reality of humanity in major crises. With exceptions, but exceptions don't make the rule.

Don't take offense at what I am saying or anything, but I am making taking an exception to your view. It isn't wrong or anything, it is just that I have had experiences that were fraught with danger; or death, if they had caught me just right.

Keep in mind that my perceptions are colored by a lot of reading, and thinking too hard sometimes; and maybe making mountains out of molehills. Yet, it is also colored by sad experience, like being chased by a gang, and having to use my .45 to back 'em down. And on another occasion, drawing my Gerber Gator on them, and backing them down that way.

I would have killed them either way, or messed them up beyond repair. That happened in a town of 50,000 people, which was invaded by Detroit/NYC gang lander's, who recruited the locals. It has happened in a lot of America.

[Sarge7402]

Maybe perhaps one needs to clarify what a shtf scenario means. First there are events of short duration. Hurricanes and tornado's come to mind. Then there are local SHTF - like our furnace going out four days ago and the coldest weather on the east coast in over a decade. Other local events could include a land war (non Nuke) on the Korean *****nular - trust me in the 80's after Park was killed it sure looked like it was a gonna happen. Then there's those SFTH that are world wide - the depression of the late 20's - early 30's is a good example. Then there's the type - man made or natural disaster; financial collapse, pandemic, World War, Zombie Apocalypse (had to enter the bizzare into the mix), break down in government.

Depending on where you sit for each of these types of event you could be in the middle of it or not touched at all. Each type of event can have a totally different response, so being prepared for them may require different plans and resources. In some cases staying in central florida is not such a bad idea.

[DerBiermeister]

IMO, the SHTF event is going to be so horrific, that none of us are going to survive for very long.

Too many "bad" countries have nukes. Forgetting for a moment about NK and Iran, the ones that really scare me are India and Pakistan. If the balloon goes up with them, it will very quickly evolve into an all-out nuclear war with the rest of the world. The USA will be targeted pdq by China and Russia just because they will feel that we will do a pre-emptive strike on them and no one will have the time to call a halt to the madness. It will expedite so quick it will make your head swim. The number of nukes going off around the world will be in the hundreds. Radiation exposure will be the death of us all unless of course you happen to live in a hardened bunker built for such an event. I really don't look forward to that kind of death (by radiation), so I hope I happen to be right under ground zero when it all starts.

Coming in a close second place for what I think is coming is the super volcano explosion of Yellowstone. If it blows the way they say it could, bend over and kiss your butt goodbye. Being buried under many inches of volcanic ash will not be a fun way to live for however long our life expectancy is predicted.

[MountainGirl]

Maybe perhaps one needs to clarify what a shtf scenario means. First there are events of short duration. Hurricanes and tornado's come to mind. Then there are local SHTF - like our furnace going out four days ago and the coldest weather on the east coast in over a decade. Other local events could include a land war (non Nuke) on the Korean *****nular - trust me in the 80's after Park was killed it sure looked like it was a gonna happen. Then there's those SFTH that are world wide - the depression of the late 20's - early 30's is a good example. Then there's the type - man made or natural disaster; financial collapse, pandemic, World War, Zombie Apocalypse (had to enter the bizzare into the mix), break down in government.

Depending on where you sit for each of these types of event you could be in the middle of it or not touched at all. Each type of event can have a totally different response, so being prepared for them may require different plans and resources. In some cases staying in central florida is not such a bad idea.

Hi Sarge, and you're right, it depends on what it is that happens... think what I had in mind when starting the thread was an event that was too big for the govt to rescue everybody, and the reaction of the people as soon as they realized they were on their own. It's the people, the sheeple, that are different, now, and maybe not taken into enough consideration in prepper's decisions. Here's a great animated vid I just found... maybe you've seen it before...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdz4DvDG_gg

[MountainGirl]

IMO, the SHTF event is going to be so horrific, that none of us are going to survive for very long.

Too many "bad" countries have nukes. Forgetting for a moment about NK and Iran, the ones that really scare me are India and Pakistan. If the balloon goes up with them, it will very quickly evolve into an all-out nuclear war with the rest of the world. The USA will be targeted pdq by China and Russia just because they will feel that we will do a pre-emptive strike on them and no one will have the time to call a halt to the madness. It will expedite so quick it will make your head swim. The number of nukes going off around the world will be in the hundreds. Radiation exposure will be the death of us all unless of course you happen to live in a hardened bunker built for such an event. I really don't look forward to that kind of death (by radiation), so I hope I happen to be right under ground zero when it all starts.

Coming in a close second place for what I think is coming is the super volcano explosion of Yellowstone. If it blows the way they say it could, bend over and kiss your butt goodbye. Being buried under many inches of volcanic ash will not be a fun way to live for however long our life expectancy is predicted.

Your first scenario reminded me of the'83 movie War Games with Matthew Broderick. Yeah, Yellowstone. It's downwind of us but I don't think that would matter much...

Anything could happen at any time; some events are more likely than others. It might be that the best any of us can to is to live our lives in the way that brings us the most joy, make choices and decisions with the best information possible, and just not worry about it. What comes, comes, and if we're all nuked - God will sort us out. :)
Thanks for your reply, stay safe.

[Inor]

The problem with most peoples view on a shtf scenario is that it's colored by TV, Movies and online paranoia. It assumes everyone will be at their worst and all for themselves. I don't think that is the historic reality of humanity in major crises. With exceptions, but exceptions don't make the rule.

I think you are 100% correct outside of major metropolitan areas.

One of the main reasons we chose to build M.T. Acres where we did is because the people here are mostly good genuine country people. Our belief was validated last spring. Most of you will remember some of my posts from last May/June when the wildfire was threatening M.T. Acres. I cannot count the number of folks we met that were boarding horses and even cattle on their land for complete strangers who were threatened by the fire. There were even ads in the local newspaper offering land to keep stock for free for the folks threatened by the fire. And that does not include the number of people from the little town near us (population of about 500 this time of year, normally about 200) who just showed up at the fire lines and said "put us to work".

Cities, on the other hand, are a completely different matter. Most folks in the city are self-absorbed. I think it is because there enough people in close proximity, you have the option of choosing friends that are exactly like you.

You also have the option of not having to have skills in a wide variety of areas. A few years ago I had a broker that would find computer work for me. He drug me over to London on a training engagement and took me to supper in a very upscale restaurant (I assume to impress me). I never give details of my personal life to people I do business with. So, unprompted by me, this stick goes off on a diatribe about how perfectly inept he is at anything regarding home maintenance. He grew up in Manhattan and now lives in Boston and he viewed it as a sign of success that he had to call an electrician to replace a light switch. I had a few too many beers and asked him if he had to sit to take a piss too. (Obviously, I do not do business with him anymore.)

My point is, folks that live in mass population centers generally do not cultivate the skills to get by in a bad situation; folks in the country can generally do a little bit of everything, even if they cannot do it exceptionally well. Which would you rather have as neighbors SHTF?

[RubberDuck]

That's all well and good when society is functional however when it collapses and basic survival takes over when their loved ones are starving or dying in front of them and their neighbors no matter what community city or country will be targets.
Unless you have a preplaned group of people you can trust with your childs life then anyone and everyone in shtf is a potential threat. Period...

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Sarge7402]

First, the mega SHTF event that Mtn Gal described while it is within the realm of possibility, the likelyhood of one happening is very low (IMHO). But on the other hand, the results of communities coming together during the hurricane season last I think is ay bell weather makrer for what will likely happen in most non catastrophic events. One needs to remember that restoring the electrical grid (not the whole system as in Puerto Rico) in Florida was done almost totally by the private sector. Just like it always has been.

As for the sheeple as we tend to call them, the majority are going to be hurt. With regards to ghetto folk gangs raiding the outside of their inner city world, you may have some, but bigger pickings are closer to the bigger cities. 30 - 40 miles out there's little in most cases but farm and crop land

[Unclefred]

I hope your right, but I'm wondering... Did the historic reality of humanity include several generations (1980's to now) of people with a strongly developed sense of instant desire fulfillment and entitlement? There are still lots of people who have a strong work-ethic; hopefully there's enough of them and they're not to old... but even they will put self/family first; as they should, imo.

There's still the matter of logistics/resources. Local help may be provided, for a time, while there's something there to help with. Outside help might be long in coming, if it does.

Maybe when the phones go dark and the atm doesn't work people will be able to surprise themselves and rise to the occasion. I wouldn't want to be living anywhere around ethnic ghettos if I had the choice.

[hawgrider]

My turn to play devil's advocate, lol.

Other than your family, who I assume you'd let in, how many starving folks will be crawling your way, and will you shoot them when they reach your gate?
:biggun:................:hungry::hungry::hungry::h ungry::hungry:

Close family consists my 2 daughter's and their husband's and children. After that...

All surviving trespassers will be shot again!

No handouts period... all that will do is cause a chain reaction with no good to come of it.

[MountainGirl]

.... But on the other hand, the results of communities coming together during the hurricane season last I think is ay bell weather makrer for what will likely happen in most non catastrophic events. One needs to remember that restoring the electrical grid (not the whole system as in Puerto Rico) in Florida was done almost totally by the private sector. Just like it always has been. ...

I think I agree, Sarge; in times of natural disasters folks rally and want to help in any way they can, and will come from all corners of the US to do so... like with Irma, and like with Inor's wildfire example. That said - in times of human-made disasters, a different mindset comes into play.

Best example is 9-11. The event itself was relatively 'small' (4K dead, maybe 1 square mile total hit,) - but the event changed the WHOLE COUNTRY, in ways we're still dealing with. No disrespect meant whatsoever to the victims of 9-11. If a winter storm knocks out the power in the NE, help does and will come. But if an EMP knocks out the power in the NE? Not so sure. Seems other areas would be busy scrambling...to prep/harden/whatever their own, cause like Gambit says, It happened to them, it can happen to you.

JMO

[MountainGirl]

Maybe when the phones go dark and the atm doesn't work people will be able to surprise themselves and rise to the occasion. I wouldn't want to be living anywhere around ethnic ghettos if I had the choice.

Rise to where and to what? Large group, or individual efforts, to magically conjure food?

Lot's of variations on the quote "three square meals away from a revolution". Humans are basically good at the core; I believe that. But if ability and starting materials are not there... the best of intentions fly out the window. People only have the ethics they can afford; hunger creates panic in those who have never known it. Again, JMO.

[MountainGirl]

Close family consists my 2 daughter's and their husband's and children. After that...

All surviving trespassers will be shot again!

No handouts period... all that will do is cause a chain reaction with no good to come of it.
Then yer a better man than me, McGee.

Attack/assault on me or mine? No question or hesitation.
But when the only threat is :hungry: - that would be a hard shot for me to take.
Another blessing about this place is that we are far enough away from people that that choice might not have to be made. Frankly, anyone with the skills who could make it up this far might be an asset to have around...
I dunno. Talk is easy. If/when it comes to it, the choice might be clearer...or maybe that's my own personal delusion.
One thing, though, if I cant take the shot - Tom can, and will. Without hesitation.

[Gambit]

this was only a part of NYC back in 77 where more people had common sense unlike today
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_blackout_of_1977

what will it look like today if NYC lost power will be worse then the LA riots of 1992 just because the power will effect a area with even more people living in it. and if its in great weather then it will be hellish for the police whom a good chunk percentage wise will likely pull a blue moon for their own safety because of the "KILLL THE POLICE" chants at every protest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

now lets make it where just half of NYC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots
this is what will happen in the first few hours in a small patch that will spread fast and even will military called in it wont do no good because it will be in heavy swing in 6 or so hours and in less then 2 whole days it will be in full swing
what make it worse if how the 1860 riot was stopped. do you see our troops firing cannons from boat and opening fire as soon they see people and running them threw with bayonets?

1 small emp that will effect all of NYC or LA Oakland or any large city will have a riot of likes that we have never seen with a outcome of a huge death toll
and with boats/rafts its even easier to get such a device to the coast shores
many illegals come here not by land but by boat/raft
only difference between a illegal who are just criminals vs a terrorist is their very own life
jon martize don't want to die so they take a safest way if they can where abu jababa alala Muhammad dose have a deathwise and will take best means to get to the coast and blowup whatever in the name of allah snackbar .

that is something that CAN happen. now lets look at what will happen

madrid earthquake will happen again and now with such a high population on the mississippi river bridges etc etc, they are simply ****ed and not in a good way of being ****ed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1811–12_New_Madrid_earthquakes
I think the death toll with that will be far worse then any large city riot can do
1. The Cascadia Subduction Zone
2. The Ramapo Seismic Zone
3. The Hayward Fault
4. The Denali Fault System
and last and not least The New Madrid Seismic Zone which I already said
these fault lines are the top 5 scariest fault lines in the US

so many things can repeat itself and with emp's bio warfare etc etc are things that has a chance of happening here on US soil

one day shit is going to get real and only thing you can do is get ready for it and hope for the best

[Unclefred]

Rise to where and to what? Large group, or individual efforts, to magically conjure food?

Lot's of variations on the quote "three square meals away from a revolution". Humans are basically good at the core; I believe that. But if ability and starting materials are not there... the best of intentions fly out the window. People only have the ethics they can afford; hunger creates panic in those who have never known it. Again, JMO.

Make up your mind, is hunger the problem you're focusing on or is it

"Did the historic reality of humanity include several generations (1980's to now) of people with a strongly developed sense of instant desire fulfillment and entitlement?"

If it's combating a food crises than that spiel abut entitlement is a strawman.

[MountainGirl]

Make up your mind, is hunger the problem you're focusing on or is it

"Did the historic reality of humanity include several generations (1980's to now) of people with a strongly developed sense of instant desire fulfillment and entitlement?"

If it's combating a food crises than that spiel abut entitlement is a strawman.

A food crisis is not a strawman when it's the first manifestation that hits the hordes who, up until then, believed they are entitled to be fed; i.e. it is someone else's responsibility to feed/care/protect them. And right now.

[hawgrider]

Then yer a better man than me, McGee.

Attack/assault on me or mine? No question or hesitation.
But when the only threat is :hungry: - that would be a hard shot for me to take.
Another blessing about this place is that we are far enough away from people that that choice might not have to be made. Frankly, anyone with the skills who could make it up this far might be an asset to have around...
I dunno. Talk is easy. If/when it comes to it, the choice might be clearer...or maybe that's my own personal delusion.
One thing, though, if I cant take the shot - Tom can, and will. Without hesitation.

You will learn to harden fast if you survive the first attack from who you thought was a friendly.

[rstanek]

I will do my best to protect my family, whether or not we would survive? Much would be in God’s hand and our wits, we can do what we thinks is our best, but we can never predict what will happen, it’s easy to armchair quarterback, but reality will be much different , dealing with electronic gadgets will probably be last on my list of priorities, shelter,water,food,protection are on top of my list, we all live in different areas of the country so that alone dictates many different circumstances, just my two cents.....

[MountainGirl]

I will do my best to protect my family, whether or not we would survive? Much would be in God’s hand and our wits, we can do what we thinks is our best, but we can never predict what will happen, it’s easy to armchair quarterback, but reality will be much different , dealing with electronic gadgets will probably be last on my list of priorities, shelter,water,food,protection are on top of my list, we all live in different areas of the country so that alone dictates many different circumstances, just my two cents.....

money well spent

There's no way to know how things will go. The biggest mistake someone can make, imo, is to think they do know and think they are ready for it.

Their last thought will probably be: Crap. Didn't see that coming... :rip:

[Unclefred]

A food crisis is not a strawman when it's the first manifestation that hits the hordes who, up until then, believed they are entitled to be fed; i.e. it is someone else's responsibility to feed/care/protect them. And right now.

That second part is the strawman. Better to just say that a food crises has always and would again be a very difficult situation for those not adequately prepared and also to a somewhat lesser degree for those who have been preparing. These types of major events tend to become great social levelers, where differences become less important than what we are suffering in common.

Still, I totally agree that food supply shortages should be accounted for by everyone.

[MountainGirl]

... Still, I totally agree that food supply shortages should be accounted for by everyone.

Could you expand on that? Want to make sure I'm getting your meaning re 'be accounted for by everyone'. Thanks!

[OSFG]

I think we can make the best discussion by focusing on what are the key differences between society before (historic disasters) and now.

Certainly if there is any regional disaster, the remaining states/areas/ even other countries will aid and lessen the over all impact. Internal to that area there will still be violence and corruption.

This is where the major difference in previous eras and today's play the largest factor. Before there was always a sense of stockpiling and preparing for the winter or shortage.

Additionally basic skills were still spread fairly evenly throughout any community. Farmers brought their produce, meat, and Milk into towns directly. Butchers were there to process, etc.

In todays societies those farmers have become corporations maintained via automation and have been moved further from the cities requiring transport and shipping.

The masses of the people really do jobs that become unimportant in most serious events and they then become a liability vice an asset.

THe bottom line difference in yester-year and today are skill sets, followed by mind set. Folks today do have the mind set to survive, but I think they lack the knowledge, so therefore will resort to more animalistic/fear based instincts. The extent that it is allowed to manifest will be determined by the degree of collapse we endure.

[Unclefred]

Could you expand on that? Want to make sure I'm getting your meaning re 'be accounted for by everyone'. Thanks!

Accounted for in ones planning.

[Unclefred]

I think we can make the best discussion by focusing on what are the key differences between society before (historic disasters) and now.

Certainly if there is any regional disaster, the remaining states/areas/ even other countries will aid and lessen the over all impact. Internal to that area there will still be violence and corruption.

This is where the major difference in previous eras and today's play the largest factor. Before there was always a sense of stockpiling and preparing for the winter or shortage.

Additionally basic skills were still spread fairly evenly throughout any community. Farmers brought their produce, meat, and Milk into towns directly. Butchers were there to process, etc.

In todays societies those farmers have become corporations maintained via automation and have been moved further from the cities requiring transport and shipping.

The masses of the people really do jobs that become unimportant in most serious events and they then become a liability vice an asset.

THe bottom line difference in yester-year and today are skill sets, followed by mind set. Folks today do have the mind set to survive, but I think they lack the knowledge, so therefore will resort to more animalistic/fear based instincts. The extent that it is allowed to manifest will be determined by the degree of collapse we endure.

Agreed. The great European Famine of the 14th century is a good study. It started suddenly, after centuries of economic growth and prosperity generated by the middle ages Warm Period. 1315, It rained heavily non stop throughout N.Europe, France, Britain, Germany, Poland, the baltics from May through August, wiping out the crops, then followed floods wiping out several hundred entire villages. TopSoils were washed away and fuel for heat such as wood and peat were rendered unusable. Naturally, several severe winters, the coldest in a millennium, followed the lost harvest. Flooding continued. Then two continent wide epidemics killed 80% of the livestock. With the soils washed away the starvation was still ongoing 5 years later.

[Dwight55]

At 73, . . . on some medications, . . . with a bum ticker, . . . I have no delusions whatsoever of surviving the next 25 years should some devastating "event" rear it's ugly head.

Rather, . . . I have a 38 yr old son and his wife, . . . for whom I have stockpiled weapons, food, tools, books, and other things they may need to survive the long haul.

I have a 2600 sq foot house that by design can be turned into a 1000 sq foot "cabin" in all of about 4 hours.

It will be up to them to continue on after the old man has become worm food.

Should they not be able or become casualties themselves, . . . we have neighbors, good friends, who can and will be free to partake of what is left.

All I'm doing is prepping for "someone" to survive, . . . if it is me, . . . that's good, . . . if someone else, . . . I hope they give thanks for the bounty the Lord provided for them.

Like Hawgrider said, . . . it is the Lord, Who untimately decides the leaving ones and the staying ones.

May God bless,
Dwight

[Coastie dad]

Prepping is like being a bull rider. It's all cool, with maybe a little turbulence occasionally in the chute. But when the gate opens, you better be ready for whatever move the bull throws at you, or learn to compensate real fast.

[MountainGirl]

Prepping is like being a bull rider. It's all cool, with maybe a little turbulence occasionally in the chute. But when the gate opens, you better be ready for whatever move the bull throws at you, or learn to compensate real fast.

Amen.

4135

[Sasquatch]

I WILL survive! Tin foil hat and all.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBOLPlNkPLY

[A Watchman]

this was only a part of NYC back in 77 where more people had common sense unlike today
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_blackout_of_1977

what will it look like today if NYC lost power will be worse then the LA riots of 1992 just because the power will effect a area with even more people living in it. and if its in great weather then it will be hellish for the police whom a good chunk percentage wise will likely pull a blue moon for their own safety because of the "KILLL THE POLICE" chants at every protest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

now lets make it where just half of NYC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots
this is what will happen in the first few hours in a small patch that will spread fast and even will military called in it wont do no good because it will be in heavy swing in 6 or so hours and in less then 2 whole days it will be in full swing
what make it worse if how the 1860 riot was stopped. do you see our troops firing cannons from boat and opening fire as soon they see people and running them threw with bayonets?

1 small emp that will effect all of NYC or LA Oakland or any large city will have a riot of likes that we have never seen with a outcome of a huge death toll
and with boats/rafts its even easier to get such a device to the coast shores
many illegals come here not by land but by boat/raft
only difference between a illegal who are just criminals vs a terrorist is their very own life
jon martize don't want to die so they take a safest way if they can where abu jababa alala Muhammad dose have a deathwise and will take best means to get to the coast and blowup whatever in the name of allah snackbar .

that is something that CAN happen. now lets look at what will happen

madrid earthquake will happen again and now with such a high population on the mississippi river bridges etc etc, they are simply ****ed and not in a good way of being ****ed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1811–12_New_Madrid_earthquakes
I think the death toll with that will be far worse then any large city riot can do
1. The Cascadia Subduction Zone
2. The Ramapo Seismic Zone
3. The Hayward Fault
4. The Denali Fault System
and last and not least The New Madrid Seismic Zone which I already said
these fault lines are the top 5 scariest fault lines in the US

so many things can repeat itself and with emp's bio warfare etc etc are things that has a chance of happening here on US soil

one day shit is going to get real and only thing you can do is get ready for it and hope for the best


OK, what did you do with Gambit, and what's it gonna take to release him?

[Gambit]

OK, what did you do with Gambit, and what's it gonna take to release him?
why you ask that?

[MountainGirl]

I WILL survive! Tin foil hat and all.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBOLPlNkPLY

Cute. Make sure you have your own spaceship, lol

FLIGHT OR FIGHT: Travelers throw punches in 'near riot' at delay-plagued JFK Airport

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/fliers-throw-punches-riot-delay-plagued-jfk-airport-article-1.3741443

" Passenger Jeremy Silver described the late-night madness at gate B23 as a “near riot” when travelers learned of their canceled XL Airways flight. 'It seems as if some punches were thrown as people jostled,' Silver said. 'The crowd went nuts booing and shouting.' Silver boarded a bus with fellow Virgin flyers bound for London, leaving behind the stranded XL passengers...."

“I checked the board and it said it was going to be delayed, and then it was just canceled,” Watson, 38, said. “No one told us anything. There was so much chaos. There were probably tens of thousands of people. It was like I was in a basketball arena."

“We are sharing a gate with another airline, and they have just cancelled their flight, causing the disturbance and the police being called,” the airline tweeted just after midnight.”

[juskom95]

I get that not everyone can move out of population centers. What I don't get is why they think they'll survive with, you know, a little food & guns on hand. Delusional. Clueless.

I'll play this game!

This can be looked at several ways and requires one to look at the entire situation.

1 - An EMP would not, be a complete and total coverage of the US. That means that any form of EMP or electronic failure would be regional, similar to massive tornadoes, hurricanes, mudslides or forest fires.

2 - During a regional disaster, while law enforcement and emergency services are overwhelmed, it is not typically permanent.

3 - This means that supplies and plans would not need to be for a lifetime, but would need to be for the foreseeable future. Maybe six months to a year, during that time foods & water would be a concern, but so would be the mass of panicky and unpredictable people.

[Toefoot]

Close family consists my 2 daughter's and their husband's and children. After that...

All surviving trespassers will be shot again!

No handouts period... all that will do is cause a chain reaction with no good to come of it.

Interesting, does this include women and children?

I agree with you in total but my experience is it never works out that way.

[juskom95]

A few years ago,I got bit by the "prepper bug". Starting planning, stocking up, looking for better locaztions,etc.,especially with Barry in office.

Personally, after living through Katrina and dealing with that, my priorities and goals changed somewhat. I'm not a HARDCORE PREPPER but I do prepare for the typical weather in the region I'm living.

It has paid off more than once here in KY, when we got the heavy snow and stores were empty (due to truck routes being blocked and panicked people). About the only thing we ran short on was fresh milk.

[Toefoot]

Our family plans knowing no guarantee. We also enjoy life and our pleasures. My hats off to all the self sustaining hermits.

[juskom95]

I never give details of my personal life to people I do business with.
Same rule I have, and its a good one.


My point is, folks that live in mass population centers generally do not cultivate the skills to get by in a bad situation; folks in the country can generally do a little bit of everything, even if they cannot do it exceptionally well. Which would you rather have as neighbors SHTF?

I think some of that is region dependent, and depends on the city too. Sure the massive (1,000,000+) cities will have those, but I think the smaller cities will have those who are more skilled, or at the very least have the proper mindset (which matters).

[juskom95]

Rise to where and to what? Large group, or individual efforts, to magically conjure food?

You're assuming a magical and mystical SHTF END OF THE WORLD APOCALYPSE without definition or terms. You're assuming that every single person and city center will be irradiated or hit by an EMP.

For that to happen would require a complete and total nuclear conflagration which would decimate the world, and something which I'm not sure is even statistically possible with the Earth's current nuclear armament.

[MountainGirl]

I'll play this game!

This can be looked at several ways and requires one to look at the entire situation.

1 - An EMP would not, be a complete and total coverage of the US. That means that any form of EMP or electronic failure would be regional, similar to massive tornadoes, hurricanes, mudslides or forest fires.

2 - During a regional disaster, while law enforcement and emergency services are overwhelmed, it is not typically permanent.

3 - This means that supplies and plans would not need to be for a lifetime, but would need to be for the foreseeable future. Maybe six months to a year, during that time foods & water would be a concern, but so would be the mass of panicky and unpredictable people.

Sure, this will be a fun game!

Need to set some parameters first... Assuming you meant an EMP attack (rather than a CME solar emission) -
1)Was it launched from NK, from a vessel off the US coast, or from within the US borders?
2)Will your scenario assume a full-scale counter-attack - confidently eliminating the threat of a second EMP elsewhere?

Pick a target. How about LA or Seattle?

[MountainGirl]

You're assuming a magical and mystical SHTF END OF THE WORLD APOCALYPSE without definition or terms. You're assuming that every single person and city center will be irradiated or hit by an EMP.

For that to happen would require a complete and total nuclear conflagration which would decimate the world, and something which I'm not sure is even statistically possible with the Earth's current nuclear armament.

No I'm not. Let's play the game.

Edit: Hey - we need a separate thread for this. Can you move these starting posts over into a WAR GAMES one?

[juskom95]

Interesting, does this include women and children?

Now that's the tough call, isn't it?

Do you take in a child, knowing it means taking in the parents?

Do you shoot the parent because they're a threat to you, knowing that will leave the child helpless?


Unfortunately in any sort of SHTF situation, the ones who can make the cold and hard decisions will do better. I know there were good and bad in Katrina. People pulling guns on others over a few gallons of gas, while others "stole," military trailers to provide water to those outside the base. People are good and bad, what really defines someone is how they react. Though panic can make an ordinarily good person do some bad things.

[juskom95]

No I'm not. Let's play the game.

That is exactly what you are assuming. We have two scenarios.

A-Worldwide EMP. This would entail massive nuclear detonations on an unprecedented scale.

B-Regional EMP. This would be very similar to other disasters which killed power and electronic devices. Look towards any hurricane or tornado for an easy comparison.

So . . . which one is it?

[MountainGirl]

That is exactly what you are assuming. We have two scenarios.

A-Worldwide EMP. This would entail massive nuclear detonations on an unprecedented scale.

B-Regional EMP. This would be very similar to other disasters which killed power and electronic devices. Look towards any hurricane or tornado for an easy comparison.

So . . . which one is it?

If you haven't already, please see post #59 this thread. Tks!

[juskom95]

If you haven't already, please see post #59 this thread. Tks!

You can create a new thread (I'm not sure if we can move individual posts).

Was there something lost in your OP or subsequent posts? I got the impression that you were focusing on an EMP attack and the delusional preparation of those in urban areas? Was that wrong?

[MountainGirl]

You can create a new thread (I'm not sure if we can move individual posts).

Was there something lost in your OP or subsequent posts? I got the impression that you were focusing on an EMP attack and the delusional preparation of those in urban areas? Was that wrong?

Your impression is partially wrong. My focus has been on preppers, who live in the middle of large populations, failing to consider the 'unpreparable danger' of the potential mind-set of the masses - when the calamity that befalls them is man-made vs a natural disaster. My posts have fleshed that out; others' posts in the thread explain why my idea is valid much better than I do: OSFG for one, Inor for another.

If you dont wan't to explore a specific scenario, as suggested in post #58, that's fine. :)

Not sure how I could explain my OP position more clearly.

[A Watchman]

Same rule I have, and its a good one.

I think some of that is region dependent, and depends on the city too. Sure the massive (1,000,000+) cities will have those, but I think the smaller cities will have those who are more skilled, or at the very least have the proper mindset (which matters).


You can create a new thread (I'm not sure if we can move individual posts).

Was there something lost in your OP or subsequent posts? I got the impression that you were focusing on an EMP attack and the delusional preparation of those in urban areas? Was that wrong?


Your impression is partially wrong. My focus has been on preppers, who live in the middle of large populations, failing to consider the 'unpreparable danger' of the potential mind-set of the masses - when the calamity that befalls them is man-made vs a natural disaster. My posts have fleshed that out; others' posts in the thread explain why my idea is valid much better than I do: OSFG for one, Inor for another.

If you dont wan't to explore a specific scenario, as suggested in post #58, that's fine. :)

Not sure how I could explain my OP position more clearly.


It must be noted that different regions of the US have different skills and mindsets. I believe MG's original size designation for a town/city that would be in dire straights was a 100,000 population. In my rural Texas neck of the woods, a town that size would have just as many can dos as can't dos.

[hawgrider]

You can create a new thread (I'm not sure if we can move individual posts).

Was there something lost in your OP or subsequent posts? I got the impression that you were focusing on an EMP attack and the delusional preparation of those in urban areas? Was that wrong?

We can move individual posts.... what did I miss? Do we have some kind of a issue?:confused::thinking:

[juskom95]

Your impression is partially wrong. My focus has been on preppers, who live in the middle of large populations, failing to consider the 'unpreparable danger' of the potential mind-set of the masses - when the calamity that befalls them is man-made vs a natural disaster.

I have personal, first hand experience with that. That is why I brought up the regional disaster. We, as a society, have seen this multiple times and usually at least once a year. The wildfires in CA, hurricane Harvey and hurricane Irma.

Sure there are indeed delusional preppers, those with the "Raider," mentality; there have always been those types and unfortunately always will be. We didn't really 'see,' too much mass rioting or looting during those events, no "Mad Max," style roving bands slaughtering and raping their way through the masses.

One point you did make was sustainability, but the reality is that unless you have a world-wide catastrophic event, that is not generally going to be an issue. Someone might have to prepare to last for one or two years, but with regional disasters there is always 'stable society,' outside of the affected area.

I've read over all of your posts, but I'm getting the impression you're going the "Anyone who isn't %100 sustainable off-grid is going to DIE!!!!!" route I've read and heard so often.

[juskom95]

It must be noted that different regions of the US have different skills and mindsets. I believe MG's original size designation for a town/city that would be in dire straights was a 100,000 population. In my rural Texas neck of the woods, a town that size would have just as many can dos as can't dos.

That is what I've noticed. Where I grew up (population of around 1.5 million) most would have trouble lighting a grill without the electronic start. Where I live now (around 250k) there are some like that, but most have some realistic understanding of "Soft Camping," skills.

[juskom95]

We can move individual posts.... what did I miss? Do we have some kind of a issue?:confused::thinking:

https://i.imgur.com/LgPM2Oa.gif

[hawgrider]

Interesting, does this include women and children?

I agree with you in total but my experience is it never works out that way.

Yes this includes anyone or anything that turns out to be a threat. I currently am 45 to 50 minutes from Detoilet So a 12 year old hood rat could be toting a roscoe and so could his crack whore mommy.

[MountainGirl]

We can move individual posts.... what did I miss? Do we have some kind of a issue?:confused::thinking:


https://i.imgur.com/LgPM2Oa.gif

Hiya Hawg - not an 'issue' - just an offer to juskom95 to really explore what might evolve during a specific scenario - a game, as he put it - and I thought it might go long with other's playing too and it would have been way off-topic...so the suggestion for a new thread!

He's apparently declining the offer, and pretending to not know why I made the suggestion, lol.

All good :)

[juskom95]

He's apparently declining the offer, and pretending to not know why I made the suggestion, lol.

Not pretending, I read your OP and your posts.

But I'm done here, I'm not going to deal with someone using passive aggressive bull to push an agenda.

Buh-bye.

[MountainGirl]

I have personal, first hand experience with that. That is why I brought up the regional disaster. We, as a society, have seen this multiple times and usually at least once a year. The wildfires in CA, hurricane Harvey and hurricane Irma.

Again, you're missing the point. All your references and experiences involve only NATURAL disasters, for which non-affected people always rally to help, within their capabilities and resources.


I've read over all of your posts, but I'm getting the impression you're going the "Anyone who isn't %100 sustainable off-grid is going to DIE!!!!!" route I've read and heard so often.
That's a pretty harsh impression you've formed, and inaccurate. Apparently I'm not able to convey to you my meaning, although others have understood it. Oh well :)

[MountainGirl]

Not pretending, I read your OP and your posts.

But I'm done here, I'm not going to deal with someone using passive aggressive bull to push an agenda.

Buh-bye.

Passive aggressive? Where??
I have no agenda other than sharing thoughts and ideas in a forum, and you, sir, have no clue what I'm talking about.
Don't let the door hit ya - pfffft

[hawgrider]

Hiya Hawg - not an 'issue' - just an offer to juskom95 to really explore what might evolve during a specific scenario - a game, as he put it - and I thought it might go long with other's playing too and it would have been way off-topic...so the suggestion for a new thread!

He's apparently declining the offer, and pretending to not know why I made the suggestion, lol.

All good :)

OK I didn't see too much of an issue on a very quick review been a busy day here so far at the work-20

its always interesting to see where our threads end up as they drift off topic here. If its really important sometimes I will clean up a thread if needed but its a on the fly judgment call usually. If you find the need to make a new thread your welcome to do so. if you need help let me know specifics and I will try to accommodate if possible.

[hawgrider]

Passive aggressive? Where??
I have no agenda other than sharing thoughts and ideas in a forum, and you, sir, have no clue what I'm talking about.
Don't let the door hit ya - pfffft

Hahaha gotta love Mondays with a dose of cabin fever. Yeah we usually get a little cranky around here this time of year...
all in the name of fun though right? :beerchug:

[MountainGirl]

It must be noted that different regions of the US have different skills and mindsets. I believe MG's original size designation for a town/city that would be in dire straights was a 100,000 population. In my rural Texas neck of the woods, a town that size would have just as many can dos as can't dos.

Agree, the more rural the more skill sets present, imo. How about food supply? Seems 100,000 would empty out reserves pretty quickly.

[MountainGirl]

OK I didn't see too much of an issue on a very quick review been a busy day here so far at the work-20

its always interesting to see where our threads end up as they drift off topic here. If its really important sometimes I will clean up a thread if needed but its a on the fly judgment call usually. If you find the need to make a new thread your welcome to do so. if you need help let me know specifics and I will try to accommodate if possible.
Nah, we're good. Thanks!

[A Watchman]

Agree, the more rural the more skill sets present, imo. How about food supply? Seems 100,000 would empty out reserves pretty quickly.

No food supply concern for a year, at my house.

Firepower and ammo you might be wondering? It equals my food stores.

[A Watchman]

Hahaha gotta love Mondays with a dose of cabin fever. Yeah we usually get a little cranky around here this time of year...
all in the name of fun though right? :beerchug:

Go back to work Hawg and be a productive citizen. Cranky this time of the year? Naw, I'm that way all 365 days, every year.

[MountainGirl]

No food supply concern for a year, at my house.

Firepower and ammo you might be wondering? It equals my food stores.

Good to hear!
I was asking more about cities nearby - if they stock enough to feed everyone :hungry:
...so they don't come eat all your Wheaties & drink all your beer.

[A Watchman]

It's astonishing to read some of the posts of people in prepper forums who think they are prepping for SHTF. I'm not talking about folks who homestead, or put up a large food supply, or stock tons of ammo/weapons...but even some of them...

I'm talking about those who live near, or in the middle of, 1,000+ population and up and think they will survive.

But the really astonishing thing is they think well, if a nuke or EMP hits far enough away, we'll be okay here in our city...WRONG! Before the 'cloud' even dissipates, everything will stop.

I get that not everyone can move out of population centers. What I don't get is why they think they'll survive with, you know, a little food & guns on hand. Delusional. Clueless.


I miss spoke when I quoted you as saying population centers of100,000 would not survive. In reality you suggested communities of 1,000 were delusional and clueless and headed for certain extermination.



Good to hear!
I was asking more about cities nearby - if they stock enough to feed everyone :hungry:
...so they don't come eat all your Wheaties & drink all your beer.

Of course no City, Town, or Community stocks enough food for all local residents. Nor does your Mountain Top should visitors come a knockin'. A short term or long term survival plan would include defensive measures, wherever one resides.

[MountainGirl]

I miss spoke when I quoted you as saying population centers of100,000 would not survive. In reality you suggested communities of 1,000 were delusional and clueless and headed for certain extermination.

Not communities, individual preppers who fail to consider how the mindset of the large population around them can change - and that if they think their having a supply of food/guns will be enough, in the middle of a big city, then yes, imo they are delusional and clueless.

My OP should have been more clear - that I was NOT talking about natural disasters, local regional or more widespread, even though there were several posts by others in the thread with examples of bad behavior during natural disasters, Katrina, etc.; but rather an attack wherein unaffected areas might hesitate to send them their own resources...fearing additional attacks. It's the change in mindset of the population - that is as big a danger, imo, as not having enough food/guns.


Of course no City, Town, or Community stocks enough food for all local residents. Nor does your Mountain Top should visitors come a knockin'. A short term or long term survival plan would include defensive measures, wherever one resides.
Agree 100%.

[hawgrider]

Cranky this time of the year? Naw, I'm that way all 365 days, every year.

Roger that they don't call me the "Griz" for nothing.....

[Gambit]

they don't call me the "Griz" for nothing.....
is that what she said?

[hawgrider]

is that what she said?Yeah my daughters gave me the name.

My wife just calls me asshole....

[Sarge7402]

Yeah my daughters gave me the name.

My wife just calls me asshole....

Hey that's a term of endearment around our house hold.

[Sarge7402]

MG
You raise a very interesting topic. One that definitely needs to be addressed. But more importantly is the simple fact that an individual group can not go long term survival alone. You are going to need the help of your neighbors regardless of what your skill sets and stock piles are. Especially if instead of just surviving we plan on rebuilding – see the ending of the Postman. To do that the community must come together and work together and that includes all forms of what we now consider local government. Yes you will need a court system to deal with recalcitrant individuals. You will need garbage collectors and engineers – especially if you plan on getting a locality’s water and sewage systems up and functioning.
Now those folks are by some folks definition non producers and leeches on society. Yes, they don’t contribute food or fuel to a community. But neither do doctors or nurses or dentists. You want to see a community die on the vine real fast let a good case of dysentery take hold and you’ll see folks die horribly really fast.

The time to build these bridges for those just moving into the community is now while the crapola hasn’t yet flown up into the rotating oscillator. Because ones it has you and your’s will be considered those terrible outsiders. And after the event that is something you do not want to be.

[MountainGirl]

MG
You raise a very interesting topic. One that definitely needs to be addressed. But more importantly is the simple fact that an individual group can not go long term survival alone. You are going to need the help of your neighbors regardless of what your skill sets and stock piles are. Especially if instead of just surviving we plan on rebuilding – see the ending of the Postman. To do that the community must come together and work together and that includes all forms of what we now consider local government. Yes you will need a court system to deal with recalcitrant individuals. You will need garbage collectors and engineers – especially if you plan on getting a locality’s water and sewage systems up and functioning.
Now those folks are by some folks definition non producers and leeches on society. Yes, they don’t contribute food or fuel to a community. But neither do doctors or nurses or dentists. You want to see a community die on the vine real fast let a good case of dysentery take hold and you’ll see folks die horribly really fast.

The time to build these bridges for those just moving into the community is now while the crapola hasn’t yet flown up into the rotating oscillator. Because ones it has you and your’s will be considered those terrible outsiders. And after the event that is something you do not want to be.


Hi Sarge, thanks for your reply; your words of concern are well received and appreciated. If it were me who thought Tom and I could survive up here long-term, then I would be the clueless and delusional one.

Two things: we are living a very, but not entirely, self sufficient life here on Peaceful Mountain. If the whole world below us vanished, we could last up here maybe a year, maybe a little more, and easily less - if something goes sideways that we cant handle ourselves with what is on hand: severe injuries, accidents, etc.... and although very remote, this mountain is not that defensible (geographically speaking) but we can put up a good fight, outcome unknown.

The second thing is, there is no 'community' anywhere near us; the closest ones (populations around 1500-2000) are 30 and 40 mountain-miles away (as compared to flat lands where a 30 mile drive is fast & straight). Building a relationship with a community in advance isn't really an option for us - And you are 100% right. For the times well after an event, for the rebuilding, it will be the communities who have the best chance at it, people pulling together.

My prayer is that there will be enough food, to give the people enough time, to do just that.

[Sarge7402]

Hi Sarge, thanks for your reply; your words of concern are well received and appreciated. If it were me who thought Tom and I could survive up here long-term, then I would be the clueless and delusional one.

Two things: we are living a very, but not entirely, self sufficient life here on Peaceful Mountain. If the whole world below us vanished, we could last up here maybe a year, maybe a little more, and easily less - if something goes sideways that we cant handle ourselves with what is on hand: severe injuries, accidents, etc.... and although very remote, this mountain is not that defensible (geographically speaking) but we can put up a good fight, outcome unknown.

The second thing is, there is no 'community' anywhere near us; the closest ones (populations around 1500-2000) are 30 and 40 mountain-miles away (as compared to flat lands where a 30 mile drive is fast & straight). Building a relationship with a community in advance isn't really an option for us - And you are 100% right. For the times well after an event, for the rebuilding, it will be the communities who have the best chance at it, people pulling together.

My prayer is that there will be enough food, to give the people enough time, to do just that.

Yes your situation is different than ours. We live in a very rural county 500 square miles and 25,000 folks. In that there are at least maybe six communities (more like villages) of any size (most are between 600 and 1500 residents). The rest are scattered from here to he77 and gone. And the county as a whole is at least 30 miles from any major population center. We are blessed that most of the county is in some form of crops or livestock and that we have a lot of things to draw off of. from infrastructure (roads, railroads and the like) to temporary housing (RV Sales places and a place that has about a thousand container offices) to a lot of professionals (vets, docs dentists etc). and three saw mill lumber yards. So our situation is different.

To not only survive but to get the community back on the road to rebuilding civilization it's going to take the efforts of a lot of folks starting at the community level

[OSFG]

hmm...Damn good thread...:popcorn:

:groinkick:

[MountainGirl]

Yes your situation is different than ours. We live in a very rural county 500 square miles and 25,000 folks. In that there are at least maybe six communities (more like villages) of any size (most are between 600 and 1500 residents). The rest are scattered from here to he77 and gone. And the county as a whole is at least 30 miles from any major population center. We are blessed that most of the county is in some form of crops or livestock and that we have a lot of things to draw off of. from infrastructure (roads, railroads and the like) to temporary housing (RV Sales places and a place that has about a thousand container offices) to a lot of professionals (vets, docs dentists etc). and three saw mill lumber yards. So our situation is different.

To not only survive but to get the community back on the road to rebuilding civilization it's going to take the efforts of a lot of folks starting at the community level


You are very blessed indeed, and I dont know if you began in that area or wisely moved to it at some point in your life...but either way - surroundings like you've described are the best hope, imo, for the continuance of, or a return to, a good way of life.

I still stand on my original premise: anyone, who resides in a large metropolitan area, who thinks a supply of food/guns will be enough to survive for any length of time - is delusional and clueless.

Those who understand the potential dangers of the mindsets out there in this day and age - have included that information in their decisions/choices: whether to stand their ground for specific reasons - or bug out. Or to permanently move out of the cities as soon as it's possible.

What pissed me off, and why I started this thread in the first place, were the posts (in another forum) of old-timers giving city-dwelling new-preppers advice that might possibly get them killed. I should have cooled off some before posting it, and given the whole post more time and clarification. Apologies for that; it would have avoided some misunderstandings - especially with Juskom95.

I appreciate everyone's input and ideas about this; you people here have good heart... including Slippy. I had to say that cause I'm still scared shitless of his Pikes. :)

[Toefoot]

Understand, I know of some preppers that include the community and never understood this thinking with the exception of very rural areas.

Hard enough planning, training, equipping, sustaining for a family when done right let alone accounting for others with pedestrian skillset.

[MountainGirl]

Some of us live already in a BOL setup, some live rural and can pretty much hold our own, some here live in cities, both large and small.... but ALL OF US live in a time of receding privacy, assaults on constitutional rights, and just overall societal insanity.

Here is a list of some of the data gatherers, for us to keep in mind, as we make choices throughout our day... hopefully to keep us from being Clueless and Delusional - as much as possible. Thanks to juskom95, TJC44 and rstanek for helping me compile the list; most appreciated.

Smart Meters
Biometric ID - FaceScan into your phone
Phone location tracking
CC cameras everywhere
Everything wifi capable/readable in your home: TV, fridge, home security & systems (furnace, etc)
ATF forms
CDC & ACA infiltration of 2A(gun) & 4A(privacy) rights via requirements to digitize/upload patient data.

juskom95
RealID
"Anonymous," surveys online/mail/phone.
Driving habits (the ODBII readers some companies give out)
Any/All image cloud sharing services.
Microsoft Telemetrics (this varies from purchased to application usage. By default it is ALL sent to Microsoft)
Internet Usage/Time/Amount (This is recorded by ISP's and is often used in criminal cases)
Garbage use (This varies by city, so not quite universal yet.)
Buying history (Those loyalty cards, Amazon)
Browsing history (Google, Microsoft etc)
Call history (NSA, Phone carriers)
Political Party Affiliation (When you register to vote)

TCJ44
Any App you install ON your phone or computer, gathers location data and various history.

rstanek
Echo Dot
Amazon Alexa
Google Home
I was told that smart TVs have cameras also, we tape any suspicious areas without disturbing the infrared for the remote

Link to list thread: http://theoutdoortradingpost.com/showthread.php?10479-Not-TinFoil-Connecting-the-Dots

If there are more data-gatherers out there you'd like added, please do on that link - and I'll edit them in to this post.

Thanks all, stay safe.

[franklin]

I have personal, first hand experience with that. That is why I brought up the regional disaster. We, as a society, have seen this multiple times and usually at least once a year. The wildfires in CA, hurricane Harvey and hurricane Irma.

Sure there are indeed delusional preppers, those with the "Raider," mentality; there have always been those types and unfortunately always will be. We didn't really 'see,' too much mass rioting or looting during those events, no "Mad Max," style roving bands slaughtering and raping their way through the masses.

One point you did make was sustainability, but the reality is that unless you have a world-wide catastrophic event, that is not generally going to be an issue. Someone might have to prepare to last for one or two years, but with regional disasters there is always 'stable society,' outside of the affected area.

I've read over all of your posts, but I'm getting the impression you're going the "Anyone who isn't %100 sustainable off-grid is going to DIE!!!!!" route I've read and heard so often.

I recognize you may not be engaged in this thread now but let me throw in a couple thoughts. My opinion.

It's likely an EMP or multiple EMPs would have a larger impact than any natural disaster we have had in modern times. It would likely cause a financial crash as our current situation can't weather much of a decline. And we have the loss of confidence people are having in the government. Either from the libs listening to non-stop fake news or the conservatives finding all the corruption in the government. I think all this adds up to a much more dangerous atmosphere if we did suffer a large scale NEMP hit.
It might also provide an opportunity for some enemies to jump into the fray and compound the situation.

So my expectations are that it will have a much larger impact on our stability than even a large natural disaster. Maybe not a CME or something like a Yellowstone eruption. But certainly a large hurricane and maybe even a Calai earthquake.

[juskom95]

I recognize you may not be engaged in this thread now but let me throw in a couple thoughts. My opinion.
When I'm bored.


It's likely an EMP or multiple EMPs would have a larger impact than any natural disaster we have had in modern times. It would likely cause a financial crash as our current situation can't weather much of a decline. And we have the loss of confidence people are having in the government. Either from the libs listening to non-stop fake news or the conservatives finding all the corruption in the government. I think all this adds up to a much more dangerous atmosphere if we did suffer a large scale NEMP hit.
It might also provide an opportunity for some enemies to jump into the fray and compound the situation.
You are absolutely correct, but for there to be an EMP (or multiple EMP's in this case) with sufficient strength and coverage to knock out CONUS, a competent state actor would have had to already acted (China or Russia would have this capability, NK or Iran? Nope.) and the fallout would be immense.


So my expectations are that it will have a much larger impact on our stability than even a large natural disaster. Maybe not a CME or something like a Yellowstone eruption. But certainly a large hurricane and maybe even a Calai earthquake.
My point was that for there to be an EMP of that magnitude would necessitate the nuclear Armageddon many predict. That is not likely or realistic, primarly because the only nations capable of launching that type of attack know the US would launch retaliatory strikes before their own missiles landed (the whole MAD approach) not to even consider the economic impact it would directly have on their markets.

So that means the most likely EMP incident would be from a NK or Iran nuclear weapon, which while bad, would be a regional event.

[franklin]

When I'm bored.


You are absolutely correct, but for there to be an EMP (or multiple EMP's in this case) with sufficient strength and coverage to knock out CONUS, a competent state actor would have had to already acted (China or Russia would have this capability, NK or Iran? Nope.) and the fallout would be immense.


My point was that for there to be an EMP of that magnitude would necessitate the nuclear Armageddon many predict. That is not likely or realistic, primarly because the only nations capable of launching that type of attack know the US would launch retaliatory strikes before their own missiles landed (the whole MAD approach) not to even consider the economic impact it would directly have on their markets.

So that means the most likely EMP incident would be from a NK or Iran nuclear weapon, which while bad, would be a regional event.

I don't think you are wrong. I do think there is a possibility something like that causes a societal meltdown. On the flip side when a nation is attacked from outside there is a tendency for the people to become nationalists and pull together. Have we crossed a bridge where that can't happen? I do think if something like that happened and the government maintained control we would see a drastic erosion of our individual rights. That's almost as scary as a full meltdown.

[juskom95]

I don't think you are wrong. I do think there is a possibility something like that causes a societal meltdown.
No more than we have seen during other regional disasters.

During Katrina we didn't have power, cell phones etc for quite a while. There was some looting, but it was primarily focused on New Orleans. Society didn't break down, we didn't see Mad Max convoys anywhere etc. While an EMP would be bad, as long as it is regional, it can be mitigated because help can, and will, come from outside the affected regions.


On the flip side when a nation is attacked from outside there is a tendency for the people to become nationalists and pull together. Have we crossed a bridge where that can't happen? I do think if something like that happened and the government maintained control we would see a drastic erosion of our individual rights. That's almost as scary as a full meltdown.
Both would most likely happen. People would pull together to face the common threat (it is in our nature) and we would also see the government clamp down on individual rights to gain/retain control.

Overall my original points was those "Delusional Preppers," have no realistic need to be %100 self-sufficient as many claim. The most realistic scenarios would only necessitated keeping food and water available for a year, maybe two. There would be no need to be self-sufficient as many propose.

[MountainGirl]

My point was that for there to be an EMP of that magnitude would necessitate the nuclear Armageddon many predict.

And MY point, that I was unable to convey to you earlier, is that it wouldn't take an EMP of that magnitude - to trigger a change of mindset; not only locally (occurrence of the event) but nationally...either of which might alter traditional response/rescues.

You might disagree with my point, which is fine, but at least there is clarity of my position.

Thanks for jumpin in, franklin. You two have fun!

[juskom95]

And MY point, that I was unable to convey to you earlier, is that it wouldn't take an EMP of that magnitude - to trigger a change of mindset; not only locally (occurrence of the event) but nationally...either of which might alter traditional response/rescues.

Because that has happened with all of the other regional disasters, right? THAT was my point.

We, as a society, have seen this before and can realistically predict how people will react. Regional disasters happen on a near yearly basis, which include significant infrastructure damage (similar to an EMP) which is required to be repaired before the region begins to stabilize.

You're pushing an agenda, one I've seen on other forums, which I have little patience for.

[MountainGirl]

Overall my original points was those "Delusional Preppers," have no realistic need to be %100 self-sufficient as many claim. The most realistic scenarios would only necessitated keeping food and water available for a year, maybe two. There would be no need to be self-sufficient as many propose.

There was never any statement, in the OP or my later posts, towards a suggestion of 100% self-sufficiency; you are the one that keeps trying to push that into the discussion. Maybe because you live with 250,000 people? It was preppers who live in the middle of a city who dont take into consideration the possibility of...oh hell. I don't need to go over this again. Using the same words rarely work the second time if they didn't the first. Maybe franklin can explain it to you better than I can. Probably so. :)

[MountainGirl]

Because that has happened with all of the other regional disasters, right? THAT was my point.

We, as a society, have seen this before and can realistically predict how people will react. Regional disasters happen on a near yearly basis, which include significant infrastructure damage (similar to an EMP) which is required to be repaired before the region begins to stabilize.

You're pushing an agenda, one I've seen on other forums, which I have little patience for.

We were never talking about regional natural disasters. YOU brought that into it as well.

I'll slide out so as to not disturb your patience level, and you and franklin can have fun, lol

[juskom95]

We were never talking about regional natural disasters. YOU brought that into it as well.

I'll slide out so as to not disturb your patience level, and you and franklin can have fun, lol

This is why I don't fight with those pushing an agenda. You proposed an OP with a scenario.

Do better if you're going to push an agenda, like I stated above I have absolutely no patience for that and am going to call you on it each time.

[MountainGirl]

This is why I don't fight with those pushing an agenda. You proposed an OP with a scenario.

Do better if you're going to push an agenda, like I stated above I have absolutely no patience for that and am going to call you on it each time.

Call all you want, but make sure you got the right number. The only 'scenario' I set were for folks in the middle of a lot of people. You filled in the rest of the blanks in your own head, including thinking I had an 'agenda' that you've seen probably too many times before, and assuming that what I was talking about. Unfortunate, that, cause I think you could have really contributed towards the thread that it was - instead of what you thought it was. Especially with your Katrina experience. Oh well. No harm, no foul. Peace?

[franklin]

And MY point, that I was unable to convey to you earlier, is that it wouldn't take an EMP of that magnitude - to trigger a change of mindset; not only locally (occurrence of the event) but nationally...either of which might alter traditional response/rescues.

You might disagree with my point, which is fine, but at least there is clarity of my position.

Thanks for jumpin in, franklin. You two have fun!

I don't completely disagree with juskom95. I think if it's a local EMP and it happens soon he is more likely right. But I think the potential is there if it's larger for a greater disruption. And loss of control by the government.

[A Watchman]

This highly subjective thread that lacks consistency and clarity really pisses me off. The next person that reopens this idiotic pissin' contest can expect me to react as follows:


:groinkick:

[MountainGirl]

I don't completely disagree with juskom95. I think if it's a local EMP and it happens soon he is more likely right. But I think the potential is there if it's larger for a greater disruption. And loss of control by the government.

Agree, pretty much. With a local EMP, there would still likely be a response/rescue from outside. One danger to preppers in the middle of that - would be from how the people around them react who have suddenly lost the ability to function in what they consider a normal way... with their face in their phone. That's all this thread was about; preppers not taking that factor into consideration, along with stocking food/guns.

fwiw, I don't disagree with juskom95 in what he was talking about... which was different that what I was talking about.

[hawgrider]

This highly subjective thread that lacks consistency and clarity really pisses me off. The next person that reopens this idiotic pissin' contest can expect me to react as follows:


:groinkick:

Git em Watchman lol!

[MountainGirl]

This highly subjective thread that lacks consistency and clarity really pisses me off. The next person that reopens this idiotic pissin' contest can expect me to react as follows:


:groinkick:

Aw...come 'on Watchman...tell us how you really feel.

Actually, you have a good point. How do you think the sheeple around you will handle not being able to Snap and Tweet about everybody standing in line at the Walmart checkout?

[Mister Mills]

This highly subjective thread that lacks consistency and clarity really pisses me off. The next person that reopens this idiotic pissin' contest can expect me to react as follows:


:groinkick:

Here Now, I Say, Here Now!!@! Save it for when you need it! That looks like a killer of a kick! I say, save it for Doomsday, it will come in handy.
I know that I will be apt to employ dirty tricks, if it all does downhill. {I am not an idiotic person normally, but I ain't normal either, I am "special".:kickinballs:}

[juskom95]

This highly subjective thread that lacks consistency and clarity really pisses me off. The next person that reopens this idiotic pissin' contest can expect me to react as follows:


:groinkick:

https://i.imgur.com/3XiH3Qs.gif

[A Watchman]

Aw...come 'on Watchman...tell us how you really feel.

Actually, you have a good point. How do you think the sheeple around you will handle not being able to Snap and Tweet about everybody standing in line at the Walmart checkout?

I will not know nor care how the sheeple at Walmart acts, as I will not be present.

[MountainGirl]

I will not know nor care how the sheeple at Walmart acts, as I will not be present.

Oh, ok. I was just providing a scenario, for clarity.

[Walter Tyler]

The City of Saint Louis has a bunker for 65 people for 2 years in the middle of Forest Park...

BUT the City is only 500ft or so above sea level... so theres THAT.

oh... and keep the bunker secret OK

COME ON WATCH MAN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-Zmkn9jmFM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-Zmkn9jmFM

[A Watchman]

The City of Saint Louis has a bunker for 65 people for 2 years in the middle of Forest Park...

BUT the City is only 500ft or so above sea level... so theres THAT.

oh... and keep the bunker secret OK

COME ON WATCH MAN:



Dadgummit Walter, You know as well as I do that if ya live in St Louis that all the bunkers in the world aint gonna save your ass from the mass of idiots that live in that liberal hell hold.

[OSFG]

I'm going cannibalistic right off. This reduces the number of people I have to share my food with, while also reducing the lines I may have to stand in..... Just saying....

And if you don't like it....Eat me.

:stirpot:

[MountainGirl]

I'm going cannibalistic right off. This reduces the number of people I have to share my food with, while also reducing the lines I may have to stand in..... Just saying....

And if you don't like it....Eat me.

:stirpot:

4180

[franklin]

The City of Saint Louis has a bunker for 65 people for 2 years in the middle of Forest Park...

BUT the City is only 500ft or so above sea level... so theres THAT.

oh... and keep the bunker secret OK

COME ON WATCH MAN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-Zmkn9jmFM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-Zmkn9jmFM


Hey, I could use some of that ammo in my preps. You just found one of my shortfalls. Thanks.

[MountainGirl]

4189
Thread is back open!
Thanks for your patience while we washed the windows & took out some trash!

[rstanek]

Why did you close it in the first place, I had a lot to say and now I forgot..........

[MountainGirl]

Mom used to say when she forgot what she was gonna say - Well it either wasn't important or it was a lie.

Maybe you'll remember. :)

[A Watchman]

4189
Thread is back open!
Thanks for your patience while we washed the windows & took out some trash!



Now I get it ..... Hawgrider is MountainGirl's sock puppet! ....... OK

[Coastie dad]

It was an important lie.

Here and I went and made popcorn and you tried to stop a thread? What the hell? If you get tired of fighting with Juskom and his argument techniques, one of us will take over. It's nothing new. He likes to argue and push buttons.
You know what they say: people who think they know everything are annoying to those of us who do.

[rstanek]

I may bullshit with others, but I don’t lie.......

[RubberDuck]

.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180113/c11e2966f459e0d3f3c1bf0beaeb66e4.gif

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[MountainGirl]

Now I get it ..... Hawgrider is MountainGirl's sock puppet! ....... OK
dang. busted.

[rstanek]

It’s interesting the twists and turns this thread has taken, it will be interesting to see where it goes.....

[MountainGirl]

It was an important lie.

Here and I went and made popcorn and you tried to stop a thread? What the hell? If you get tired of fighting with Juskom and his argument techniques, one of us will take over. It's nothing new. He likes to argue and push buttons.
You know what they say: people who think they know everything are annoying to those of us who do.
Hell no, never tired of it, but feel free to jump in anytime! Was gonna wrap it up nicely, with the data-gathers post as the bow, but with all the new folks coming in, thought they might want to comment - if there's anything after 100 posts left to be said, lol.

[Coastie dad]

We go for derailed thread records around here.

[MountainGirl]

Good to know - thanks!

[hawgrider]

Ruthless crowd..... I like it!

Keep in mind we give you the power to close your own threads. We also give you the power to ban individuals from your threads.... personally that one is pretty funny Ive used it myself it has a great effect on the banned individuals. This has been a public service announcement.

[MountainGirl]

Also good to know! lolol

[A Watchman]

Ruthless crowd..... I like it!

Keep in mind we give you the power to close your own threads. We also give you the power to ban individuals from your threads.... personally that one is pretty funny Ive used it myself it has a great effect on the banned individuals. This has been a public service announcement.

Hell of a deal .... I had no idea you could close your own thread. Might shouldn't have told me though, I could see me ambushing one of ya wineheads and letting the pot just stir.

[hawgrider]

Hell of a deal .... I had no idea you could close your own thread. Might shouldn't have told me though, I could see me ambushing one of ya wineheads and letting the pot just stir.

It has a great effect! More power to da people!

[MountainGirl]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME ?????


An emergency alert notification sent out on Saturday claiming a "ballistic missile threat inbound to Hawaii" was a false alarm, according to state leaders and emergency officials.

"BALLISTIC MISSILE THREAT INBOUND TO HAWAII. SEEK IMMEDIATE SHELTER. THIS IS NOT A DRILL," the emergency alert read. Hawaii Gov. David Ige told CNN that human error caused the alert to go out.

"It was a mistake made during a standard procedure at the change over of a shift, and an employee pushed the wrong button," he said. The warning went out to television and radio as well as cell phones, Ige added.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/13/politics/hawaii-missile-threat-false-alarm/index.html


38 minutes for the word to get out that the Alert was in error.

I wonder what all the people did, in that 38 minutes, to prep for what they thought was coming. Any guesses?

What would you have done for that half-hour - if the warning was issued for you?

[MountainGirl]

Mister Mills posted this (and the link below) elsewhere: "It gets so much better, there is a headline in The LA Times, that reads--False Alert of Missile Attacks Sparks Panic In Hawaii. And then there is an aerial pic of Honolulu; so the punks crapped their shorts over in Paradise. I will bet that the place is full of loud moth liberals, who talk a tough fight. But let it break wide open, and their true cowardice shines through. I ain't impressed, and I hope they piss the bed tonight. ;)"


http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-hawaii-missile-alert-20180113-story,amp.html


A morning alert that warned of a ballistic missile heading straight for Hawaii and sent residents into a full-blown panic Saturday was a mistake, state emergency officials said.

The emergency alert, which was sent to cellphones across the island shortly after 8 a.m. local time, said in all capital letters, "Ballistic missile threat inbound to Hawaii. Seek immediate shelter. This is not a drill."

The alert caused a tizzy on the island and across social media.

At the Sony Open on Oahu, Waialae Country Club was largely empty and players were still a few hours from arriving for the PGA Tour event. The tournament staff urged an evacuation of the media center. "This is not a drill," said Candice Kraughto, who runs the media operations for the Open.

A local radio show from the clubhouse, next to glass windows that overlook the Pacific, kept broadcasting. Staff members at the club streamed into the clubhouse and tried to seek cover in the locker room, which was filled with players' golf bags, but instead went into the kitchen.

Jaime Malapit, owner of a Honolulu hair salon, texted his clients that he was canceling their appointments and was closing his shop for the day. He said he was still in bed when the phone started going off "like crazy." He said he thought it was a tsunami warning at first.

"I woke up and saw missile warning and thought, ‘No way.’ I thought, 'No, this is not happening today,'" Malapit said.

He said he was still "a little freaked out" and feeling paranoid even after hearing it was a false alarm.

Richard Ing, a Honolulu attorney, said he was doing a construction project at home when his wife told him about the alert.

He said he dug his phone out and had confirmed he had the same alert. Attempts to find further information on the television or were unsuccessful, he said, and then he saw on Twitter that it was a false alarm.

While he was trying to confirm, his wife and children were preparing to evacuate in case they needed to move to safer ground, he said.

For the first time, I wish I had Twitter lol.

[OSFG]

The biggest issue here is the crying for Wolf effect... Already people have to be convinced and enter into social media confirmations, which can be a good thing in the case of false alarms, but overall causes folks to delay taking measures.

Folks years ago used to go to a cellar/storm shelter if they heard a Tornado warning. Then it was if there was a Tornado watch. Now its if they see it coming at them. Cause they don't want to be inconvenienced...

The only problem with that is your not doing anything of use staring at a TV screen, computer screen, or a Phone screen...Just go ahead and do something productive either believe it and take action...or friggin go back to work.

Jeez...

[MountainGirl]

The biggest issue here is the crying for Wolf effect... Already people have to be convinced and enter into social media confirmations, which can be a good thing in the case of false alarms, but overall causes folks to delay taking measures.
True that. When I first heard about this, I was really hoping it was only just a phone alert thing... cause think of the folks who might not be 'online', especially the elderly, with no way to 'confirm' via social media...and was busy scrambling or having a stroke and didn't hear the "Oops, never mind." Somebody will likely swing for this; it's too big a thing for it to not go unpunished, imo.


Folks years ago used to go to a cellar/storm shelter if they heard a Tornado warning. Then it was if there was a Tornado watch. Now its if they see it coming at them. Cause they don't want to be inconvenienced... Grew up in Nebraska - and it's the 'Cry Wolf' thing for tornadoes in that City, cause T's would just jump over/bypass every time. Hell, everybody is out there now tryin to video it...or catch a kewl selfie. Then again, a NUKE selfie would be kinda kewl...if there was anyone left to show it to.

4198



The only problem with that is your not doing anything of use staring at a TV screen, computer screen, or a Phone screen...Just go ahead and do something productive either believe it and take action...or friggin go back to work.

Jeez... Agree. Hey - when this Hawaii thing happened...did any of your little bells go off?

[MountainGirl]

Thought about posting links to stories of Hawaii folks panicking, and there are plenty...but couldn't bring myself to it. What struck me were the stories of folks waiting for confirmation/direction...

It might be that the danger (sheeple) I originally thought was so large for city-preppers might not be initially. The scale of initial freak-out will be large, imo, but they'd be clueless as to what to do next without their shepherd (phone).

4207

[Walter Tyler]

I think the most telling part about the Hawaii false alarm was for 38 minutes NO ONE knew what to do... WTF good is it to warn folks if they dont know what to do.

There were videos of folks dropping their CHILDREN into storm drains... IDIOTS.

oh and BLAME TRUMP:



Jamie Lee Curtis
‏Verified account @jamieleecurtis
Jan 13
This Hawaii missle scare is on YOU Mr. Trump. The real FEAR that mothers & fathers & children felt is on YOU. It is on YOUR ARROGANCE. HUBRIS. NARCISSISM. RAGE. EGO. IMMATURITY and your UNSTABLE IDIOCY. Shame on your hate filled self. YOU DID THIS!




Jim Carrey
‏Verified account @JimCarrey
Jan 13
I woke up this morning in Hawaii with ten minutes to live. It was a false alarm, but a real psychic warning. If we allow this one-man Gomorrah and his corrupt Republican congress to continue alienating the world we are headed for suffering beyond all imagination. ;^\



Very Stable Genuis
‏Verified account @rezaaslan
Jan 13

Trump knew within minutes no missile was hurtling toward Hawaii. He was golfing. They told him. He did not tweet out that info. He kept golfing. People thought they & their families were going to die FOR 38 MINS. Then when the panic was over he tweeted how media is so mean to him
1,704 replies 37,458 retweets 90,314 likes

[Walter Tyler]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTll6SBVoAE1fJV.jpg

[Inor]

Hawaii is such a small place, if there is a nuke inbound, there is nothing to do but bend over and kiss your ass goodbye. I do not even know why they bother with an Emergency Management System. Hawaii is an awful place. I do not know why anybody would want to live there.

[MountainGirl]

It might be that the danger (sheeple) I originally thought was so large for city-preppers might not be initially...

But then again...there's this. LOLOL

Brawl breaks out at Bay Area restaurant over missing phone.
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Newark-brawl-NewPark-Mall-Johns-Incredible-Pizza-12498115.php

[Walter Tyler]

Breaking: SECOND ALARM Goes Off Warning North Korea Launched Ballistic Missiles

THIS time it is JAPAN...


TOKYO – Japan's public broadcaster mistakenly sent an alert warning citizens of a North Korean missile launch and urging them to seek immediate shelter, then retracted it minutes later, days after a similar error in Hawaii.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/01/16/japan-public-tv-sends-mistaken-north-korean-missile-alert.html

[MountainGirl]

Breaking: SECOND ALARM Goes Off Warning North Korea Launched Ballistic Missiles

THIS time it is JAPAN...



http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/01/16/japan-public-tv-sends-mistaken-north-korean-missile-alert.html

WTF is going on??

[Walter Tyler]

Couple of ideas circulating "out there"... But they would belong in the tin foil section :)

I will put something together later...

[Walter Tyler]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTrLdvXW4AEZ7E7.jpg:large

edit:
Text for folks/chics that cant see the pic:


Hickam AFB Fusion Analyst here. The false alert was not a mistake. It was ordered. We were informed it was to be a drill, but then all information was put out that the threat was real.

Immediate contact was made to the White House and requests were made for retaliation. I think there was a push to have the White House approve an attack on foreign vessels off the coast.

When the White House replied "Negative" and demanded further information, my superiors called Gov. David Ige where he ordered us to contact media outlets of there being a false alarm. One of the Gov. Aids was present, and speaking with who looked to be a federal investigator. I overheard them state that this "Demonstrated weakness in the Trump admin and a refusal to protect his people."

I come on here and shitpost a lot. I see a lot of bullshit that gets thrown around here. I have even trolled you guys with commie threads for shits and giggles. But this really worries me. I haven't signed any kind of gag order on this. Nor has some of my mates. We don't really know what to do or what's going on. Which is really bothersome because it's literally my job to process all information going in an out of this place for reports. I don't know what to do or what's going to happen to me.

[Walter Tyler]

There have also been reports of Huma and WJC being seen in Hawaii when this happened...

https://www.bitchute.com/video/ceRs_EVdx18/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTmYp9AWAAIPeFH.jpg:large

[Walter Tyler]

Emergency Management Officials Hold Interview - Have Post-It Notes of Legible Passwords on Their Computer Screens http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/01/hawaiian-emergency-management-officials-hold-interview-post-notes-passwords-computer-screens/ …

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTn9uNsX0AEFmyk.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTn9uNsW4AATkA1.jpg

https://twitter.com/Tabertronic/status/953071771686752256

SOME of this crap is just tooo funny

[MountainGirl]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTrLdvXW4AEZ7E7.jpg

Hey Walter, the images you post aren't showing up for me; I hit quote to get the link & open them separately. This one I'm copying & reloading here. Dont know if others here can see it.

4221
hell, cant hardly read it. oh well.

[rstanek]

From what I gather from reading this is, the liberal state of Hawaii was trying to set up the Trump administration to commit retaliation for the state crying wolf, Trump administration obviously made the right choice by standing down, but the press is spinning this as the Trump administration being ineffective, dammed if he does, dammed if he don’t. He will NEVER get a win from the media.....

[MountainGirl]

From what I gather from reading this is, the liberal state of Hawaii was trying to set up the Trump administration to commit retaliation for the state crying wolf, Trump administration obviously made the right choice by standing down, but the press is spinning this as the Trump administration being ineffective, dammed if he does, dammed if he don’t. He will NEVER get a win from the media.....

Yeah. No tinfoil there.

[Walter Tyler]

Hey Walter, the images you post aren't showing up for me; I hit quote to get the link & open them separately. This one I'm copying & reloading here. Dont know if others here can see it.

4221
hell, cant hardly read it. oh well.

Not sure mtgirlie... I can see if I can find a dif link for that particular one... if ya wan it.

[MountainGirl]

Not sure mtgirlie... I can see if I can find a dif link for that particular one... if ya wan it.

Nah I'm good, the no pic showing was just an fyi to you - I can always get it the other way, and - THANKS! for editing in the text from it. Yer a peach. :)

[hawgrider]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTrLdvXW4AEZ7E7.jpg:large

edit:
Text for folks/chics that cant see the pic:

Yer pic is working fine on this end.

[MountainGirl]

Some of you may have seen this posted elsewhere:


Yes, I imagine it's pretty hopeless for the cities. Let's break the essential needs down by availability in Boston. Water: The Charles river runs through the center of Boston. Even if it becomes contaminated, the water can be boiled, and our flat rooftops can collect our adequate precipitation. So, water is not a huge problem. Shelter & security: The houses are almost all made of brick or stone, and the 1st floor windows tend to be high, so shelter & security won't be an insurmountable problem. We have very little violent crime anyway. Food: Gardens can be grown on roofs and local parks, and fished/gathered from the nearby ocean and river. Even so, it won't be enough to keep half of the population from starving. Heat: a quarter of the city apartments have working fireplaces, and the rest can improvise something, but lack of wood and house fires will become a big problem. Toilets: Boston has a huge reservoir that will keep the water running for weeks on the lower floors, but after that, there are few places to put human waste. Diseases will spread, likely most seriously affecting those who do not find hygienic solutions.

Though each city and each community will have its own unique challenges, at least 2/3rds of the population is sure to die. -But neighborhoods whose residents work together intelligently and productively will be more likely to survive, though it will still be a difficult and needy life for them. I estimate that a half million, out of the current 2.5 million in Boston, will be able to survive longer than a year. Luckily, I live outside the city and have much more abundant resources.

My personal opinion is the poster, though hopeful and well-meaning, is clueless and delusional. I could easily be wrong (and hope I am) but it's hard to believe a half million would survive - and much of his thinking isn't, well, realistically thought through, imo.

What I'm asking you guys is this: When you run across something you believe is not realistic - do you say something...or just let it go?

Recently here, a few of you ignored something I'd posted and at first I was pissed because you didn't feel like you could tell me I was clueless or full of shit - but now, after reading that guys post, I understand the kindness that might have been to just let it ride. Is that making sense?

Maybe we speak up when it matters, and roll past it when it doesn't... but how do we decide if it matters? Or maybe nothing matters and we just interact when we feel like it.

Any thought welcome, if you feel like replying. If not, no harm no foul. :hippie:

[Coastie dad]

1. The guy you quoted is a self absorbed academic dipshit that goes to that site in order to school people on our ignorance.

2. He's like the town bicycle. We've all had our ride. May as well take your turn on calling the dipshit out. He's one of the "I read a book and wrote this thesis on urban survival for your benefit" type pricks.

3. Have fun!

[MountainGirl]

1. The guy you quoted is a self absorbed academic dipshit that goes to that site in order to school people on our ignorance.

2. He's like the town bicycle. We've all had our ride. May as well take your turn on calling the dipshit out. He's one of the "I read a book and wrote this thesis on urban survival for your benefit" type pricks.

3. Have fun!

3. I just posted this; we'll see if it turns out to be fun :)


Hi. I'm curious, since you "live outside the city and have much more abundant resources"... to what end are you taking your ideas? Are you prepping to be an eventual part of a sustaining community...or is this all just a mental exercise for you? What actual things are you doing in the lines of the ideas you propose? A lot of your ideas, while on the surface seem somewhat good, don't really flesh out in reality. But I could be wrong and you might have a lot of real life experience with gathering water on roof-tops, etc... do you? Do you have actual hands-on experience in any of the other ideas you came up with? Thanks!

[Inor]

Some of you may have seen this posted elsewhere:


Yes, I imagine it's pretty hopeless for the cities. Let's break the essential needs down by availability in Boston. Water: The Charles river runs through the center of Boston. Even if it becomes contaminated, the water can be boiled, and our flat rooftops can collect our adequate precipitation. So, water is not a huge problem. Shelter & security: The houses are almost all made of brick or stone, and the 1st floor windows tend to be high, so shelter & security won't be an insurmountable problem. We have very little violent crime anyway. Food: Gardens can be grown on roofs and local parks, and fished/gathered from the nearby ocean and river. Even so, it won't be enough to keep half of the population from starving. Heat: a quarter of the city apartments have working fireplaces, and the rest can improvise something, but lack of wood and house fires will become a big problem. Toilets: Boston has a huge reservoir that will keep the water running for weeks on the lower floors, but after that, there are few places to put human waste. Diseases will spread, likely most seriously affecting those who do not find hygienic solutions.

Though each city and each community will have its own unique challenges, at least 2/3rds of the population is sure to die. -But neighborhoods whose residents work together intelligently and productively will be more likely to survive, though it will still be a difficult and needy life for them. I estimate that a half million, out of the current 2.5 million in Boston, will be able to survive longer than a year. Luckily, I live outside the city and have much more abundant resources.

My personal opinion is the poster, though hopeful and well-meaning, is clueless and delusional. I could easily be wrong (and hope I am) but it's hard to believe a half million would survive - and much of his thinking isn't, well, realistically thought through, imo.

What I'm asking you guys is this: When you run across something you believe is not realistic - do you say something...or just let it go?

Recently here, a few of you ignored something I'd posted and at first I was pissed because you didn't feel like you could tell me I was clueless or full of shit - but now, after reading that guys post, I understand the kindness that might have been to just let it ride. Is that making sense?

Maybe we speak up when it matters, and roll past it when it doesn't... but how do we decide if it matters? Or maybe nothing matters and we just interact when we feel like it.

Any thought welcome, if you feel like replying. If not, no harm no foul. :hippie:

What kind of a freaking retard would posit that Boston is the place to be during SHTF?!? Boston sucks in the best of times! It would be absolutely uninhabitable if anything bad went down.

First, the city is extremely compressed. Yes, there are "only" 2.5 million people, but they are all living on a piece of ground smaller than Manhattan island.

Second, the brick and stone houses he is so proud of are all the red brick houses that were popular in the early 1800's. They might stop one or two pistol bullets, but empty a 30 round mag of 5.56 into them and I think they will start to crumble pretty quick.

Third, they have very little violent crime?!? REALLY?!?! Has this asshat never heard of South Boston? Those Micks have taken violent crime to an artform.

Forth, all of your artfully decorated brownstones have fireplaces in them. Great. What are you going to burn in them retard? Boston has not relied on wood for its primary source of heat since it had a population of about 50,000. If you could get a reliable source of coal, you might be able to heat about half the homes. But wait SHTF, no coal... Sorry douchebag, you freeze!

Fifth, so you live outside the city with much more abundant resources, so you will be fine... Uh huh. Have you looked at a map recently genius? The topography of the city of Boston means the city-dwellers only have one way to go when they decide to leave the city (for the reasons I outlined in points 1-4). That path of escape will take them right through your abundant outside-the-city area. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to witness some of those Southies raining Irish Confetti (bricks) on your ginger ass when they come through your town.

Next batter...

[MountainGirl]

LOL most excellent post in the wrong forum. :explodingbomb:

[A Watchman]

Some of you may have seen this posted elsewhere:


Yes, I imagine it's pretty hopeless for the cities. Let's break the essential needs down by availability in Boston. Water: The Charles river runs through the center of Boston. Even if it becomes contaminated, the water can be boiled, and our flat rooftops can collect our adequate precipitation. So, water is not a huge problem. Shelter & security: The houses are almost all made of brick or stone, and the 1st floor windows tend to be high, so shelter & security won't be an insurmountable problem. We have very little violent crime anyway. Food: Gardens can be grown on roofs and local parks, and fished/gathered from the nearby ocean and river. Even so, it won't be enough to keep half of the population from starving. Heat: a quarter of the city apartments have working fireplaces, and the rest can improvise something, but lack of wood and house fires will become a big problem. Toilets: Boston has a huge reservoir that will keep the water running for weeks on the lower floors, but after that, there are few places to put human waste. Diseases will spread, likely most seriously affecting those who do not find hygienic solutions.

Though each city and each community will have its own unique challenges, at least 2/3rds of the population is sure to die. -But neighborhoods whose residents work together intelligently and productively will be more likely to survive, though it will still be a difficult and needy life for them. I estimate that a half million, out of the current 2.5 million in Boston, will be able to survive longer than a year. Luckily, I live outside the city and have much more abundant resources.

My personal opinion is the poster, though hopeful and well-meaning, is clueless and delusional. I could easily be wrong (and hope I am) but it's hard to believe a half million would survive - and much of his thinking isn't, well, realistically thought through, imo.

What I'm asking you guys is this: When you run across something you believe is not realistic - do you say something...or just let it go?

Recently here, a few of you ignored something I'd posted and at first I was pissed because you didn't feel like you could tell me I was clueless or full of shit - but now, after reading that guys post, I understand the kindness that might have been to just let it ride. Is that making sense?

Maybe we speak up when it matters, and roll past it when it doesn't... but how do we decide if it matters? Or maybe nothing matters and we just interact when we feel like it.

Any thought welcome, if you feel like replying. If not, no harm no foul. :hippie:


Your late to the game with this one, we have long moved on. Sometimes you just consider the source.

[MountainGirl]

Your late to the game with this one, we have long moved on. Sometimes you just consider the source.

I understand and agree, and I'm glad you all had a turn at bat with this idiot. I've little interest in swinging at him... but sometimes I feel compelled - not for the pleasure of upsiding his head, which there would be some, but mostly out of concern for new preppers (the focus of the OP) that might believe his (and others) shit like this. I want as many people as possible to survive and this crap keeps them clueless and delusional. Then again...maybe that's a good thing? If they're not smart enough to see through it - well, nature's way of weeding em out. Thanks for your reply.

[A Watchman]

I understand and agree, and I'm glad you all had a turn at bat with this idiot. I've little interest in swinging at him... but sometimes I feel compelled - not for the pleasure of upsiding his head, which there would be some, but mostly out of concern for new preppers (the focus of the OP) that might believe his (and others) shit like this. I want as many people as possible to survive and this crap keeps them clueless and delusional. Then again...maybe that's a good thing? If they're not smart enough to see through it - well, nature's way of weeding em out. Thanks for your reply.

If appears you have taken it upon yourself to save the world .... Don't, that role has already been assigned.

[MountainGirl]

If appears you have taken it upon yourself to save the world .... Don't, that role has already been assigned.

You're right. And, it's part of my God-given nature to react if I see a child rushing towards a fire, a swimmer in trouble out on the lake, or someone telling lies that can cause others real pain. Just my way.

[tc556guy]

Around here 1000 population would be a moderately sized village. I actually think that a village of a few hundred to 1000, depending on location, would have the best chance of survival, with some redundancy in skillsets, probable location near-enough to agricultural areas, etc.

[MountainGirl]

Around here 1000 population would be a moderately sized village. I actually think that a village of a few hundred to 1000, depending on location, would have the best chance of survival, with some redundancy in skillsets, probable location near-enough to agricultural areas, etc. That would be ideal, yes - and you're right about location: far enough away from major population centers... to not be over-run by any initial swarms.

[Coastie dad]

I've decided yalls nuts. All this prepping is a waste of time. I'm moving to a suburb of Boston, 'cause I know a guy...

[hawgrider]

I've decided yalls nuts. All this prepping is a waste of time. I'm moving to a suburb of Boston, 'cause I know a guy...

I skimmed thru that idiots(T Gus) thread today at PF....

I damn near bit my tongue off trying to keep my mouth shut.

[OSFG]

...
What I'm asking you guys is this: When you run across something you believe is not realistic - do you say something...or just let it go?

Recently here, a few of you ignored something I'd posted and at first I was pissed because you didn't feel like you could tell me I was clueless or full of shit - but now, after reading that guys post, I understand the kindness that might have been to just let it ride. Is that making sense?


Mountain Girl...As to the first part...I tend to go whole hog on their idea and even try to help convince them of how wonderfully brilliant they are to have considered the idea from such an enlightened state.... or I rip it apart strategically with the use of metaphorical musing and pontificating points of scintillating syntax so that they are amazed when they wind up branded and chasing a butterfly on a string...connected to a stick...

As to ignoring you...I would never do such a distasteful display of unchivalrous chicanery as to allow a Lil ole gal from the mountains to think I was doing anything but a courtin her in all my unsophisticated, soldierly sadness, and saintly sentiments and intentions....

The rest of these Cats I can't speak for....but there it is..

[MountainGirl]

Mountain Girl...As to the first part...I tend to go whole hog on their idea and even try to help convince them of how wonderfully brilliant they are to have considered the idea from such an enlightened state.... or I rip it apart strategically with the use of metaphorical musing and pontificating points of scintillating syntax so that they are amazed when they wind up branded and chasing a butterfly on a string...connected to a stick...

As to ignoring you...I would never do such a distasteful display of unchivalrous chicanery as to allow a Lil ole gal from the mountains to think I was doing anything but a courtin her in all my unsophisticated, soldierly sadness, and saintly sentiments and intentions....

The rest of these Cats I can't speak for....but there it is..

Dammmmit OSFG, with you I cant tell if I'm gettin my leg pulled or not.
Believe that? Well you should not. :)

[MountainGirl]

I skimmed thru that idiots(T Gus) thread today at PF....

I damn near bit my tongue off trying to keep my mouth shut.

Did you see his last post just now? He's a 'community organizer' - and his own survival plan seems to consist of having others pay him ?? for teaching them how to organize their community (each Boston block) and hunt & trap (I guess in the streets of Boston) :shrug: Inor's playing with him a bit; I'm just gonna watch LOLOL

[Inor]

Did you see his last post just now? He's a 'community organizer' - and his own survival plan seems to consist of having others pay him ?? for teaching them how to organize their community (each Boston block) and hunt & trap (I guess in the streets of Boston) :shrug: Inor's playing with him a bit; I'm just gonna watch LOLOL

Draw him in... See what happens. :biglaugh:

[Coastie dad]

I wonder if that sheep shagging nut sucker has me on the ignore button now? Or is he just out and out ignoring me?
Meh....peg him.

[Inor]

I wonder if that sheep shagging nut sucker has me on the ignore button now? Or is he just out and out ignoring me?
Meh....peg him.

He does not seem to like me either. I wonder why? I have not attacked him yet. I am still working him into a corner.

[Coastie dad]

I'm pretty sure my intelligence level is beneath his consideration. I don't know if you noticed, but i often come off as crass and argumentative to people.
He hasn't said much to me since I challenged him on his woodland survival skills way back when he first joined.

[Inor]

I'm pretty sure my intelligence level is beneath his consideration. I don't know if you noticed, but i often come off as crass and argumentative to people.
He hasn't said much to me since I challenged him on his woodland survival skills way back when he first joined.

You? Crass and argumentative? Never!

[OSFG]

Man I am so glad you guys are enjoying him... I honestly have had zero friggin time to go out Cat herding since well before Nov....

I really miss being able to wrangle a kitty cat and string it along.... Really haven't done it much since the old days of PF before the Great Repression...

[MountainGirl]

I jumped back in. I've had it with this f*ckwad.

[Coastie dad]

We should buy his book, copy it to the web and publish it for free.

[MountainGirl]

We should buy his book, copy it to the web and publish it for free.

Good idea - except I doubt he has one. If he did...why would he still be asking for input? And now he says he's a psychologist. In another thread he says he went to Notre Dame. I dont believe any of it.

[Coastie dad]

Nah. He's full of shit to the point his eyes are brown.

[Kfilly]

The whole "prepping" mantra is humorous to me. Most of this new movement of turds through a fan, emp blah blah blah is kinda funny to me. I chuckle quite often at the tinfoil hat crowd as they wrap up and secure their electronics blah blah blah.

Good lord I don't need no stinken electronics if turds break the fan blades. I don't need a prepper high rise with like minded nutcases.

Did my grandparents wrap their cell phones and tablets in prep for emp blah blah blah? No they didn't. Do I ? Hell no. People are such wimps today that they worry about elctronics ha!

To tell ya the truth I dont worry about any of it. When its my time its my time the good lord will decide that.

I wrap some of my electronics. My small solar panels, USB battery chargers, a few LED camping lamps, my night vision and all scopes with electronics get protected. I see my totalitarian government clamping down hard via the order out of chaos method. I truly believe this government would nuke its own citizens and say the boogeyman of the day did it. This government, who murders abroad without reservation or pause, will have no problems doing the same here. I am preparing to be able to defend myself from all enemies foreign and domestic. Part of that is owning the night. While I might not be able to do that against the government, I want to be able to get the odds as even as possible.

[Kfilly]

The whole "prepping" mantra is humorous to me. Most of this new movement of turds through a fan, emp blah blah blah is kinda funny to me. I chuckle quite often at the tinfoil hat crowd as they wrap up and secure their electronics blah blah blah.

Good lord I don't need no stinken electronics if turds break the fan blades. I don't need a prepper high rise with like minded nutcases.

Did my grandparents wrap their cell phones and tablets in prep for emp blah blah blah? No they didn't. Do I ? Hell no. People are such wimps today that they worry about elctronics ha!

To tell ya the truth I dont worry about any of it. When its my time its my time the good lord will decide that.

I just want to add that my protection against this was cheap. I paid about $20 for a large old school metal trash can from Home Depot. I also bought an army surplus dry bag. Both were incredibly cheap. I place the non-conductive dry inside the garbage can, put the items I want to protect inside the bag, make sure the nothing is touching the garbage besides the dry bag, seal the bag up, and I cover the trash can. It is simple and cheap. I also see no real reason not to do it.

[Kfilly]

It's astonishing to read some of the posts of people in prepper forums who think they are prepping for SHTF. I'm not talking about folks who homestead, or put up a large food supply, or stock tons of ammo/weapons...but even some of them...

I'm talking about those who live near, or in the middle of, 1,000+ population and up and think they will survive.

I wasn't born yet during the Depression - but my Aunt lived through it, in a city, and she spoke of the gardens in their (and everybody's) back yards, and how they got by. People today are the farthest from being self-sufficient - not only to feed themselves but in mentality too. Expecting rescue, expecting others to provide. Believing their neighbors will feed them, or wont steal their food. Not gonna happen.

But the really astonishing thing is they think well, if a nuke or EMP hits far enough away, we'll be okay here in our city...WRONG! Before the 'cloud' even dissipates, everything will stop. There will be no more shipments of food from one part of the country to another; I don't need to explain why that is.

I get that not everyone can move out of population centers. What I don't get is why they think they'll survive with, you know, a little food & guns on hand. Delusional. Clueless.

I live in city of about 50k. I am a few blocks (about twelve) from being outside of my city and in the country. I have enough food to last a couple weeks. My main plan is to bug out even if I have to huff it on foot. Unfortunately, my bug out location is not designed for year round habitation without being there all the time (freezing pipes would suck in winter), and my job prevents me from doing living there for 24 hours at a time. If there is a nuclear explosion near me, whatever happens will happen.

[runNgun]

Thats why i live in the desert. no one will nuke me. If someone comes from the city ill just rob them.

[Inor]

Thats why i live in the desert. no one will nuke me. If someone comes from the city ill just rob them.

I hear tell you can rob city people with a paperclip if you bend it straight. (Everybody knows city people do not like straight things.)

[Gambit]

I hear tell you can rob city people with a paperclip if you bend it straight. (Everybody knows city people do not like straight things.)

hahaha
always wondered why I felt more welcomed here in a small town then I ever felt living in buffalo or when I travel to other cites
thank you for straighten that out for me

[runNgun]

I hear tell you can rob city people with a paperclip if you bend it straight. (Everybody knows city people do not like straight things.)

All we have here are crack hos and beaners. But you shouldnt talk about fags like that. My friend is a fag and a mexican. but I aint gay like that hes kewl.

[hawgrider]

All we have here are crack hos and beaners. But you shouldnt talk about fags like that. My friend is a fag and a mexican. but I aint gay like that hes kewl.

And that was broadcasted live from his mommys basement. Looks like we have food for the lions den. Dinner bell is ringing fellas come and get it.

[runNgun]

And that was broadcasted live from his mommys basement. Looks like we have food for the lions den. Dinner bell is ringing fellas come and get it.

no thanks i all ready ate your mom. Jk brotha we r kewl.

[shootbrownelk]

Somebody get rid of this text speak Yahoo.