Is anyone else VERY worried about our water situation?

[jbrooks19]

I keep seeing on the news all these issues with water and the quality of it, is anyone else worried about it? I'm in this panic thinking i need to stock up on even more water and filters to prep for when it hits closer to me..Am i nuts?

[Sparkyprep]

No, you are not nuts. It's simple, high school math. There is "X" amount of clean drinking water available on this planet. Human beings are breeding and multiplying at a rate that is beyond our planet's ability to sustain. At the same time, this multitude of humans is polluting the available water at a rate that is exponentially related to population.

The vast majority of the sheeple just can't seem to make the connection. If you want to secure your survival, secure your water supply.

[Coppertop]

I'm in the same boat jbrooks, I NEED to get my water situation fixed. Not only for drinking water, but also for saving money on watering the lawn and garden

[Innkeeper]

I run of my own well, but there is still nothing wrong with a water catchment system tied into your gutters with collection barrels and filters, there are some pretty good systems for good prices out there all you need to do is look around. Water is more important then food since we are mostly made of water, I think in time though the more we wreck our world the more the chance Mother nature will do something to fix the problem, and boy are we in trouble then.

[jbrooks19]

It worries me... My wife is pregnant, ii already have a 2yr old son. I HAVE to be prepared FOR THEM, not for me but for them. My wife and children mean everything to me and i cant imagine the day my wife or son(s) has to say "Daddy/Husband, i'm literally dying of thirst" i cant/wont bear it.

[Innkeeper]

I assume you live in a city/town and have treated water and sewage?

[Denton]

Not really following what has you so spooked? Are you talking about the severe drought out west, the recent shut down of the city water supply due to the algae bloom, or what?

[Imaexpat2]

Our water quality is just fine, however the COE has dropped our lake 10 feet and wont let any water accumulate from the rains we have had in order to keep the construction cost down for a private company doing a road expansion on I-35, it will be another Toll Road of course dontcha know...ironically they have put all kinds of restrictions on water use and are clamering for water conservation at the top of their lungs.

[Arklatex]

Not really following what has you so spooked? Are you talking about the severe drought out west, the recent shut down of the city water supply due to the algae bloom, or what?
I'm guessing he's worried about a lack of preparation to deal with water allocation and filtering.

You can build a good filter out of berkey filters and buckets for cheap. Check out the thread in the gear reviews forum. I'm in the process of doing it myself.

[Denton]

Check out the ProPur filters. That's what we use. I don't remember the specifics, but they are supposed to be better.

[HuntingHawk]

The chemicals injected into the ground for fracking sure isn't helping.

[Coppertop]

HH

Formation Fracturing (Fracking is a media word- it's really Frac-ing) isn't just a bunch of chemicals like the media and the enviromentalists want you to believe. YES there are some chemicals in it but they are usually pretty diluted. The Frac-ing is also done in a different zone, that is usually quite some ways from a water source. Most wells I have worked on, all over the western US, have water tables (drinkable) someplace between 800 and 2000 ft. The Gas zones are generally from 4500 ft to 25,000 ft.

I have lived in a number of different "Boom" towns that are in the middle of oil and gas fields and have never seen the Bad Water Effects such as gas in the water etc that the media claim. The one cost of Frac-ing that I do see is that quite a bit of water is used to carry the sand downhole. Some of that water is produced with the gas and oil then reused, but a bunch of it is fresh water. I apologize if this is the part you are refering to.

This subject gets to me. I have run cement, frac and most other downhole equipment all over and just see the Fracking Scare as just that. It sure seems to me that none of these reporters learn about what they are reporting on and only listen to one side of a story. I guess that is like everything else they talk about too. Just that this one hits close to the ol pocket book.

Thanks for letting me rant.

[Innkeeper]

Our water quality is just fine, however the COE has dropped our lake 10 feet and wont let any water accumulate from the rains we have had in order to keep the construction cost down for a private company doing a road expansion on I-35, it will be another Toll Road of course dontcha know...ironically they have put all kinds of restrictions on water use and are clamering for water conservation at the top of their lungs.

I am up here in the Great Lakes and I think this year was one of the first in about 10 we had a positive movement on the lakes that long hard winter has helped and so far plenty of rain this summer, heck this is the longest we have gone without rain it is 11 days now, but they are calling for T-storms both Monday and Tuesday, crops are looking good and the nighttime sleeping weather has been great I think the hottest day all summer so far has been low 80's this time last year it was 90's. All of this should make for a nice hunting season, fishing has been good too.

[Innkeeper]

HH

Formation Fracturing (Fracking is a media word- it's really Frac-ing) isn't just a bunch of chemicals like the media and the enviromentalists want you to believe. YES there are some chemicals in it but they are usually pretty diluted. The Frac-ing is also done in a different zone, that is usually quite some ways from a water source. Most wells I have worked on, all over the western US, have water tables (drinkable) someplace between 800 and 2000 ft. The Gas zones are generally from 4500 ft to 25,000 ft.

I have lived in a number of different "Boom" towns that are in the middle of oil and gas fields and have never seen the Bad Water Effects such as gas in the water etc that the media claim. The one cost of Frac-ing that I do see is that quite a bit of water is used to carry the sand downhole. Some of that water is produced with the gas and oil then reused, but a bunch of it is fresh water. I apologize if this is the part you are refering to.

This subject gets to me. I have run cement, frac and most other downhole equipment all over and just see the Fracking Scare as just that. It sure seems to me that none of these reporters learn about what they are reporting on and only listen to one side of a story. I guess that is like everything else they talk about too. Just that this one hits close to the ol pocket book.

Thanks for letting me rant.

You hit it right on the head, Natural Gas is huge up here in Michigan I worked in the fields until my Back injury on My first Government sponsored vacation, but a good chunk of my family still works in the field, and it annoys me as well when I hear the lies from the media and libtard tree huggers about the process. Kind of like how hunting is bad for the animals , but hunters probably put more money into conservation then any tree hugging or animal rights group out there, we want our wilderness happy and the animals to be plentiful and multiply, just like I want the cost of my natural gas and fuel to be low and would rather get all that we have without buying it from other countries.

Though Michigan pumps NG all across the Midwest for others consumption, surprisingly for all we produce up here I would say half the people use propane to heat which they bring in and we pay through the nose for during winter, because groups protest fracking even here. Our last Governor was a Dem and opposed to big business, she stopped new well drilling back in 2008 starting lots of lay offs and price spikes, thankfully while I was away for the active duty again she was voted out and our new governor started drilling again and even bringing more jobs home, sadly for the unions he made us a right to work state. I spent a few years as UAW, their time is past. But I digress Thanks for speaking up about the real process.

[HuntingHawk]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/01/05/some-states-confirm-water-pollution-from-drilling/4328859/

http://energyindepth.org/national/how-anti-fracking-activists-deny-science-water-contamination/

[Coppertop]

In the links that HH put up, here is a quote that is in the first article (the one about how bad fracking is)

"Experts say the most common type of pollution involves methane, not chemicals from the drilling process."

Methane is a naturally occuring gas that is found in most underground formations. It is already in most if not all water aquifers. It could be possible that what the homeowners are experiencing is that the water table has dropped for whatever reason and the methane gas isn't being held back like it was before. This allows the methane to combine and flow with the water. A real easy solution to most of the issues these people are having would be to put in a cistern. That would allow the methane to "Flash" out of the water (Think a pop or soda going flat). Then run the water through a "taste" filter and it should be good as it ever was.

I can go into formation pressures and hydrostatic head pressures if anyone wants me to. Please let me know.

[Inor]

I do not know about frac-ing, but I know here in Minnesota the biggest contributor to the water table going down is the stupid government sponsored ethanol plants. Last year they reported that the water table in SW Minnesota had dropped 9 FEET because of all of the water required to make ethanol. Not to mention, Minnesota and Iowa grow some of the most nutrient rich corn in the world. So our politicians want to use all of it for ethanol rather than food. It is absolutely asinine to be subsidizing the production of a less efficient fuel at the expense of our food production and ruining the water table in the process. But that is what you get when you hire a douchebag governor like Mark Dayton.

[Slippy]

In the links that HH put up, here is a quote that is in the first article (the one about how bad fracking is)

"Experts say the most common type of pollution involves methane, not chemicals from the drilling process."

Methane is a naturally occuring gas that is found in most underground formations. It is already in most if not all water aquifers. It could be possible that what the homeowners are experiencing is that the water table has dropped for whatever reason and the methane gas isn't being held back like it was before. This allows the methane to combine and flow with the water. A real easy solution to most of the issues these people are having would be to put in a cistern. That would allow the methane to "Flash" out of the water (Think a pop or soda going flat). Then run the water through a "taste" filter and it should be good as it ever was.

I can go into formation pressures and hydrostatic head pressures if anyone wants me to. Please let me know.

Yes, I would appreciate more of your insight. Thanks CT

[Coppertop]

A gallon of water weighs 8.33lbs, but in a vertical column water exerts .433 lbs/square inch (PSI) per ft. So say you have a column of water that is 10 ft tall creating 4.3 psi at the bottom of the column. Width and shape of the column doesn't matter, this is strictly a vertical measurement.

Formation pressure is the force that is pushing on gas/water/oil/ etc.

Here we are only dealing with the height of the aquifer, not the depth below ground- more later on that

When the water table is up ( we can use 20 ft of aquifer for an example) the gases such as methane are basically trapped by the 8.6 PSI of water. What happens when the water table drops is that the hydrostatic head is reduced allowing the gas to mingle into the water. So if we are now at 10 ft of aquifer, now there is only 4.3 PSI. If the formation pressure is equal to say 6 PSI for our example, the formation has almost 2 PSI differental and gas is allowed in where as before we had almost 3 PSI more in hydrostatic pressure to keep it out. There are also things like gas migration and entrapment that affect these numbers ever so slightly, but for most intents and purposes they are null.

The easiest example I can think of, while not perfect is a pop/soda bottle. Pretend the pop itself is the formation, the carbonation is the gas, and the cap is the hydrostatic head. The cap is holding pressure on the formation (pop) and the gas, while still present, is entrained in the formation. What happens when you open the cap? All the gas rushes out until the hydrostatic head, which is now just atmosphere, equals the gas pressure in the pop. Then as you drink the pop, the hydrostatic head changes again and you see gas bubbles floating to the top to equalize the pressure.

Remember your water aquifers are not just 10 or 20 ft tall and are also 800/1500 +/- ft underground so do not take my example as gospel but as a workable thought. The same principles apply at 10 ft as they do at 1000 ft or 30,000 ft.below ground. The only difference is that at 30,000ft it makes for bigger volumes of fluid to deal with in a well bore.

I hope this makes a little bit of sense. If there are any questions or clarification points I would be glad to answer them the best I can.

Jbrooks- I kind of feel like I hijacked your thread, and for that I apologize

[SquirrelBait]

Buy two things (Three if you're really thinking d00m)
1. A Berkey or comparable water filter.
2. A dehumidifier with a reservoir.
3. (D00m Optional) Solar to run the dehumidifier.
Run the dehumidifier, Filter the water from the reservoir through the Berkey/Filter, Enjoy!

Pull the water from the air.

[SquirrelBait]

I do not know about frac-ing, but I know here in Minnesota the biggest contributor to the water table going down is the stupid government sponsored ethanol plants. Last year they reported that the water table in SW Minnesota had dropped 9 FEET because of all of the water required to make ethanol. Not to mention, Minnesota and Iowa grow some of the most nutrient rich corn in the world. So our politicians want to use all of it for ethanol rather than food. It is absolutely asinine to be subsidizing the production of a less efficient fuel at the expense of our food production and ruining the water table in the process. But that is what you get when you hire a douchebag governor like Mark Dayton.

The only problem I have with our corn is the GMO portion of it. I wont eat GMO anything...

[Inor]

The only problem I have with our corn is the GMO portion of it. I wont eat GMO anything...

Are you a farmer Squirrel? If so, would you be willing to sell Mrs Inor and me a few bushels this fall? (For cash, no receipt required.) You are not so far from us that we should drive over and meet you and buy you supper anyway.

[Montana Rancher]

A gallon of water weighs 8.33lbs, but in a vertical column water exerts .433 lbs/square inch (PSI) per ft. So say you have a column of water that is 10 ft tall creating 4.3 psi at the bottom of the column. Width and shape of the column doesn't matter, this is strictly a vertical measurement.

Formation pressure is the force that is pushing on gas/water/oil/ etc.

Here we are only dealing with the height of the aquifer, not the depth below ground- more later on that

When the water table is up ( we can use 20 ft of aquifer for an example) the gases such as methane are basically trapped by the 8.6 PSI of water. What happens when the water table drops is that the hydrostatic head is reduced allowing the gas to mingle into the water. So if we are now at 10 ft of aquifer, now there is only 4.3 PSI. If the formation pressure is equal to say 6 PSI for our example, the formation has almost 2 PSI differental and gas is allowed in where as before we had almost 3 PSI more in hydrostatic pressure to keep it out. There are also things like gas migration and entrapment that affect these numbers ever so slightly, but for most intents and purposes they are null.

The easiest example I can think of, while not perfect is a pop/soda bottle. Pretend the pop itself is the formation, the carbonation is the gas, and the cap is the hydrostatic head. The cap is holding pressure on the formation (pop) and the gas, while still present, is entrained in the formation. What happens when you open the cap? All the gas rushes out until the hydrostatic head, which is now just atmosphere, equals the gas pressure in the pop. Then as you drink the pop, the hydrostatic head changes again and you see gas bubbles floating to the top to equalize the pressure.

Remember your water aquifers are not just 10 or 20 ft tall and are also 800/1500 +/- ft underground so do not take my example as gospel but as a workable thought. The same principles apply at 10 ft as they do at 1000 ft or 30,000 ft.below ground. The only difference is that at 30,000ft it makes for bigger volumes of fluid to deal with in a well bore.

I hope this makes a little bit of sense. If there are any questions or clarification points I would be glad to answer them the best I can.

Jbrooks- I kind of feel like I hijacked your thread, and for that I apologize

Hello

EXCELLENT POST!

I don't recall the last time I copied and pasted something to research it more but I found your reasoning sound.

I will get back to you but this hit a chord and makes sense to me at first glance.

[OSFG]

Hello

EXCELLENT POST!

I don't recall the last time I copied and pasted something to research it more but I found your reasoning sound.

I will get back to you but this hit a chord and makes sense to me at first glance.


COPPERTOP....HIGH PRAISE...High Praise indeed.....

[jbrooks19]

Thanks for all the replies guys.. I do already own a few different filters (Lifestraw and Katydyn(?), i always forget how to spell that) and i keep bleach and purification tabs on hand at all times. I really need to stock up on bottled water. The local Big Lots has purified water for $2 per 24..I may go pick up 10 or 15 cases a week for a month or so to get my stock to where is comfortable. I currently only have 5 cases of water on hand and it makes me nervous.

[Slippy]

I do not know about frac-ing, but I know here in Minnesota the biggest contributor to the water table going down is the stupid government sponsored ethanol plants. Last year they reported that the water table in SW Minnesota had dropped 9 FEET because of all of the water required to make ethanol. Not to mention, Minnesota and Iowa grow some of the most nutrient rich corn in the world. So our politicians want to use all of it for ethanol rather than food. It is absolutely asinine to be subsidizing the production of a less efficient fuel at the expense of our food production and ruining the water table in the process. But that is what you get when you hire a douchebag governor like Mark Dayton.

Yes Sir Inor, the problem however goes well beyond MN and your douchebag governor. There seems to be more douchebag govs that LOVE their stupid ass ethanol...or more accurately love their ethanol SUBSIDIES.

I refilled my Non-Ethanol tanks yesterday and paid $4.00 a gallon for pure gas to run my small engines etc. Ethanol/Gas mixture is about $3.30/gallon...BS if you ask me.

[Inor]

Yes Sir Inor, the problem however goes well beyond MN and your douchebag governor. There seems to be more douchebag govs that LOVE their stupid ass ethanol...or more accurately love their ethanol SUBSIDIES.

I refilled my Non-Ethanol tanks yesterday and paid $4.00 a gallon for pure gas to run my small engines etc. Ethanol/Gas mixture is about $3.30/gallon...BS if you ask me.

Lucky you! I cannot buy gas that is not at least 10% ethanol in MN at any price! I wish I could. It increases the mileage in my truck by about 30%. You would think somebody would explain to these morons, using something like math, that burning more gallons of fuel translates into more pollution going into the air even IF the pollution per gallon is slightly less. For as much lip services as these idiot Dems give SCIENCE!, they sure do not understand much about it.

[Slippy]

Lucky you! I cannot buy gas that is not at least 10% ethanol in MN at any price! I wish I could. It increases the mileage in my truck by about 30%. You would think somebody would explain to these morons, using something like math, that burning more gallons of fuel translates into more pollution going into the air even IF the pollution per gallon is slightly less. For as much lip services as these idiot Dems give SCIENCE!, they sure do not understand much about it.

Science is just the excuse when THEY want to persuade...MONEY and POWER is the real reason. Any halfway intelligent person knows that taking FOOD (CORN) and USING GOOD FUEL to create SUBSTANDARD FUEL (Ethanol) is ****ING STUPID!!!!!!

Most of the small engine problems are directly due to ethanol. Most companies who make quality small engine driven equipment like Stihl (the chainsaw and equipment co) actually state in their owner manuals (in English, Spanish and possibly French) that they recommend pure gas.

[Tachammer73]

Ethanol is the worst thing you can do to a small engine and it's bad for bigger ones as well I never buy it unless I have no choice

[Arklatex]

I blame it for the early death of several weed eaters and chainsaws. I now force myself to buy a cheap weed Eater every year instead of ruining another stihl. And slippy is right, why put our food into our gas tank. Fubar

[SquirrelBait]

Are you a farmer Squirrel? If so, would you be willing to sell Mrs Inor and me a few bushels this fall? (For cash, no receipt required.) You are not so far from us that we should drive over and meet you and buy you supper anyway.

Sorry Inor, I wish I was. I would GIVE you organic produce just cos I consider you, Mrs. Inor, And all our peeps here as friends. I live in town. :(

[jbrooks19]

I work for a John Deere, Stihl and Exmark dealership and we see it EVERY DAY! Ethanol kills these small engines. Of course, it is next to impossible to find Ethanol free fuel here also. The least Ethanol count we can find is 8-9% at local Marathon stations. You can buy quart quantities of Tru-Fuel or Motomix (Ethanol-free premixed fuel for 2-stroke engines) but it is expensive ($5-$8 a QUART)

[Arklatex]

I work for a John Deere, Stihl and Exmark dealership and we see it EVERY DAY! Ethanol kills these small engines. Of course, it is next to impossible to find Ethanol free fuel here also. The least Ethanol count we can find is 8-9% at local Marathon stations. You can buy quart quantities of Tru-Fuel or Motomix (Ethanol-free premixed fuel for 2-stroke engines) but it is expensive ($5-$8 a QUART)
I use ethanol shield. I'm not 100% sure it works bu my Walmart weed eaters have made it through 2 seasons now. It's effed up that I have to buy a fuel treatments to keep pump gas from destroying my equipment.

[jbrooks19]

I use ethanol shield. I'm not 100% sure it works bu my Walmart weed eaters have made it through 2 seasons now. It's effed up that I have to buy a fuel treatments to keep pump gas from destroying my equipment.

It helps slightly...There isn't any product that can 100% do away with the effects of Ethanol, its sad but true.

[OSFG]

I have never really learned enough about all the topics here..EThanol and the repercussions, or Fracing and the effects..I appreciate the expertise that Copper top brings to it. All I can do is this...If I hear about it on the news..I immediately suspect the data...if I then read about it on the internet and it sounds like the news report...I just treat it like a fairy tale....If the government comes out and says it's true....then I invest in what ever is the opposite of what the government is saying is the solution....I have limited brain cells that I can point into the problems of my life...so it's good to have a group of folks like you filtering the stuff that I know little to nothing about.

[Inor]

Sorry Inor, I wish I was. I would GIVE you organic produce just cos I consider you, Mrs. Inor, And all our peeps here as friends. I live in town. :(

Regardless, we should still meet up for supper some time. Long Rider lives about half way between you and us, so maybe we could get her to join us too. :D

[Montana Rancher]

I work for a John Deere, Stihl and Exmark dealership and we see it EVERY DAY! Ethanol kills these small engines. Of course, it is next to impossible to find Ethanol free fuel here also. The least Ethanol count we can find is 8-9% at local Marathon stations. You can buy quart quantities of Tru-Fuel or Motomix (Ethanol-free premixed fuel for 2-stroke engines) but it is expensive ($5-$8 a QUART)

In Montana if you buy premium gas it has no ethanol in it IF you are outside the city limits.

Same county just a different set of rules, check it out.

Also if you are planning on storing some gas SHTF then you need 91 octane with no ethanol and Stabil or some other stabilizer to keep it

Rotate at least yearly

[jbrooks19]

In Montana if you buy premium gas it has no ethanol in it IF you are outside the city limits.

Same county just a different set of rules, check it out.

Also if you are planning on storing some gas SHTF then you need 91 octane with no ethanol and Stabil or some other stabilizer to keep it

Rotate at least yearly

You are correct my friend. Sadly i have no where local i can get my hands on Ethanol free fuel. :(

[TJC44]

Would Sta-bil counter the ethanol at all?

[Pauls]

Gasoline used to use lead (tetra-ethyl lead) as an additive to raise the octane level to make it work in modern engines. After finding out that the lead was raising the environmental lead levels well beyond healthy limits it was found that lead could be replaced with two compounds. The first one that the gas companies tried was a compound that emitted far more dangerous components than even the leaded gas produced. It has been all but banned. The only other alternative was ethanol. Ethanol is what they are using to raise the octane in most of the gasoline today. It is way better than either of the other alternatives for the automotive industries. The biggest problem that ethanol has produced is it cleaned the corrosion and gums left from using the older gas and moisture that corroded the steel lines. Ethanol was blamed for the rust and tar when all it was doing was cleaning the crud that was there out of the engines fuel system. The problems with the small two cycle engines was that the older two-cycle oils would separate the fuel from the alcohol because it would mix with the gasoline but not the ethanol. the other problem was the gas-alcohol mixture was left sitting in the aluminum crankcase. They now have two-cycle oils that mix with both the gas and ethanol and when used properly it works in the small two-cycle engines. When the alcohol sits in an aluminum container it pulls water from the air and causes corrosion in the aluminum in which it has contact.

With the removal of lead and addition of alcohol in gasoline it shortened the "shelf life" of the gas. Products like Sta-Bil can raise the shelf life of "gasohol" to two years or more as long as it is kept in a sealed container. In the presence of moisture in the air the ethanol absorbs the water which breaks down the gasoline. It is important to store your "emergency" gasoline in air tight containers with the addition of a fuel stabilizer like Sta-Bil.

Ethanol left sitting in an aluminum container will pull water from the air and corrode the aluminum. While there are steps that can be taken to prevent the corrosion they are expensive and of limited life span. The few positive lubrication two-cycle engines don't seem to have the same problems that the engines that use the fuel-oil mix to lubricate have. I believe that the answer is to keep the fuel out of the crankcase to keep from damaging the piston skirts and lower cylinder walls. Other than that, if you drain the fuel/oil out of the engine and mist it with oil when not in use you can prevent most of the problems associated with the small two-stroke engines.

The automotive industry has had very few problems - other than the flushing of corrosion and varnish from old systems - and when an engines compression is boosted to about 14:1 ethanol (straight - no gasoline) can give considerably more power per cubic inch than gasoline can at it "best" compression ratio. Because of the forced lubrication and oil in the sump with no fuel present automotive engines don't experience any of the problems commonly associated with alcohol fuel. (Ethanol is not corrosive by itseft like Methanol) NASCAR uses straight Ethanol as its only accepted fuel now. They also have limited the compression ratios so that they are not running 14:1 engines. (that makes them "safer" because they keep the HP down below 800 by keeping the engines "detuned" compared to the maximum capabilities of the fuel.

[OSFG]

Gasoline used to use lead (tetra-ethyl lead) as an additive to raise the octane level to make it work in modern engines. After finding out that the lead was raising the environmental lead levels well beyond healthy limits it was found that lead could be replaced with two compounds. The first one that the gas companies tried was a compound that emitted far more dangerous components than even the leaded gas produced. It has been all but banned. The only other alternative was ethanol. Ethanol is what they are using to raise the octane in most of the gasoline today. It is way better than either of the other alternatives for the automotive industries. The biggest problem that ethanol has produced is it cleaned the corrosion and gums left from using the older gas and moisture that corroded the steel lines. Ethanol was blamed for the rust and tar when all it was doing was cleaning the crud that was there out of the engines fuel system. The problems with the small two cycle engines was that the older two-cycle oils would separate the fuel from the alcohol because it would mix with the gasoline but not the ethanol. the other problem was the gas-alcohol mixture was left sitting in the aluminum crankcase. They now have two-cycle oils that mix with both the gas and ethanol and when used properly it works in the small two-cycle engines. When the alcohol sits in an aluminum container it pulls water from the air and causes corrosion in the aluminum in which it has contact.

With the removal of lead and addition of alcohol in gasoline it shortened the "shelf life" of the gas. Products like Sta-Bil can raise the shelf life of "gasohol" to two years or more as long as it is kept in a sealed container. In the presence of moisture in the air the ethanol absorbs the water which breaks down the gasoline. It is important to store your "emergency" gasoline in air tight containers with the addition of a fuel stabilizer like Sta-Bil.

Ethanol left sitting in an aluminum container will pull water from the air and corrode the aluminum. While there are steps that can be taken to prevent the corrosion they are expensive and of limited life span. The few positive lubrication two-cycle engines don't seem to have the same problems that the engines that use the fuel-oil mix to lubricate have. I believe that the answer is to keep the fuel out of the crankcase to keep from damaging the piston skirts and lower cylinder walls. Other than that, if you drain the fuel/oil out of the engine and mist it with oil when not in use you can prevent most of the problems associated with the small two-stroke engines.

The automotive industry has had very few problems - other than the flushing of corrosion and varnish from old systems - and when an engines compression is boosted to about 14:1 ethanol (straight - no gasoline) can give considerably more power per cubic inch than gasoline can at it "best" compression ratio. Because of the forced lubrication and oil in the sump with no fuel present automotive engines don't experience any of the problems commonly associated with alcohol fuel. (Ethanol is not corrosive by itseft like Methanol) NASCAR uses straight Ethanol as its only accepted fuel now. They also have limited the compression ratios so that they are not running 14:1 engines. (that makes them "safer" because they keep the HP down below 800 by keeping the engines "detuned" compared to the maximum capabilities of the fuel.


Oh My GAWD when did this headache I have start??? What I heard was....drain fuel if your not using it routinely.....and plan on using manual tools in a SHTF situation lasting more than a few months.....Where's my GOODIE'S headache powders????...Oh and I heard NASCAR....and HP....is it Sunday???

[Pauls]

Old SF guy,

Use a good scoth over ice. It's ethanol and it will cure your headache! :)

[OSFG]

Old SF guy,

Use a good scoth over ice. It's ethanol and it will cure your headache! :)

Dammit Man make up your mind...Ice is Water and you just said ethynol pulls....SHit.....OOOOWWWWW! Head!!!!

[Pauls]

:) You made me laugh tears!

Most people won't drink scoth the way I do... room temperature and neat. You could try it without the ice... Just remember to drink 8 ounces of water after each shot because it takes water for your body to metabolize the alcohol... (it even pulls the water out of you!) ;)


Sorry, I just couldn't stop myself.

[Arklatex]

LMAO osfg made paul laugh tears!!! Paul, when I drink bourbon or scotch I do as you do. Neat and room temp.

[Inor]

LMAO osfg made paul laugh tears!!! Paul, when I drink bourbon or scotch I do as you do. Neat and room temp.

I drink it from a sippy cup.

[Slippy]

Slippy's Good Whiskey Rule; Good Whiskey should be poured into the largest glass that you own, filled with some clear ice cubes made from distilled water. No cloudy ice.

[Sparkyprep]

I drink it from a sippy cup.

I have been photographed drinking it from a young lady's belly button. :bigthumbup:

[Montana Rancher]

As this was originally a water post I will at last respond to it,

Being as I live at the source of water, with several springs on my property or springs above my property that I have water right to, I admit I don't have any concerns, unless the powers that be decide to circumvent states water rights and limit our historic use with BS environmental laws.

That being said, I don't know how anyone in states with 1 million people or more are not concerned. The water is simply not there to support everyone, and there is going to be some big changes in the laws in the near future to try and keep the masses that live in unsustainable areas alive. That will probably affect me for irrigating crops, but they can't stop me from pumping my well water.... I think.

[Pauls]

Washington (the state) tried last year to put tax meters on the private wells in the state. It did not go through but you can bet they will keep trying.

[SAR-1L]

Yes Sir Inor, the problem however goes well beyond MN and your douchebag governor. There seems to be more douchebag govs that LOVE their stupid ass ethanol...or more accurately love their ethanol SUBSIDIES.

I refilled my Non-Ethanol tanks yesterday and paid $4.00 a gallon for pure gas to run my small engines etc. Ethanol/Gas mixture is about $3.30/gallon...BS if you ask me.

Shit slippy I am jealous in CO Springs I am paying roughly 6.60 - 6.70$ for eth/gas mix for my truck. :( and it takes about 19 Gallons to top her off.

[Innkeeper]

Shit slippy I am jealous in CO Springs I am paying roughly 6.60 - 6.70$ for eth/gas mix for my truck. :( and it takes about 19 Gallons to top her off.

Wow I am not going to complain about Gas prices here anymore, We are a Major tourist destination in MI and so gas is about 30-45 cents more expensive then the rest of the state from thurs to mon, and about 25-35 cents the rest of the week, but it is still cheaper then your my friend.

[jbrooks19]

Here in Indiana gas today is $3.35 a gal, I can see the sign from my office.

[James m]

It was 3.29 last time I filled up on September 3. Still on the same tank. Hope my gauge is still working.
I read in the news its expected to go back to the 2.xx range.

[jbrooks19]

Back to the water prepping, just ordered a Berkey filter and installed 2 more rain barrels.

[Arklatex]

Back to the water prepping, just ordered a Berkey filter and installed 2 more rain barrels.
Good deal buddy. Sounds like you're heading in the right direction. Make sure to get some replacement filters for the berkey. Look at doulton filter candles on amazon. Same exact thing but less expensive. They will probably ship you berkey filter candles anyway.

[jbrooks19]

Good deal buddy. Sounds like you're heading in the right direction. Make sure to get some replacement filters for the berkey. Look at doulton filter candles on amazon. Same exact thing but less expensive. They will probably ship you berkey filter candles anyway.


Once i get it and make sure it does what i need then i plan on getting extra filters, and one complete extra unit for each of my rain barrels.. I need to start looking around locally for places that have manual wells installed.. I know at my BOL 3/4 a mile away there is 2 manual well pumps at a cemetery, luckily it is secluded and not many people are aware of it.

[Arklatex]

Once i get it and make sure it does what i need then i plan on getting extra filters, and one complete extra unit for each of my rain barrels.. I need to start looking around locally for places that have manual wells installed.. I know at my BOL 3/4 a mile away there is 2 manual well pumps at a cemetery, luckily it is secluded and not many people are aware of it.
How to Make a Bailer Bucket: http://youtu.be/PzD6k2OoQ5Y

Here is another tool you can make to help get water from a well.

[jbrooks19]

How to Make a Bailer Bucket: http://youtu.be/PzD6k2OoQ5Y

Here is another tool you can make to help get water from a well.


Thats cool, i'll have to do more research on that!

[RWalls]

This is why all these laws designed to "protect us from ourselves" is such a horrible idea, we need population control around the world.