Land Navigation Skills

[OSFG]

Being a former Military person with extensive Land navigation skills I have learned the value of knowing how to navigate with or without a compass or without a map, or any electronic gadgets. If your plan involves any potential movement where the potential to have to navigate at night, off roads and potentially without the aid of modern technology...

Are you prepared and able to do so without getting disoriented and turned around or lost?

Do you have Maps of your routes and have you prepared to navigate them at night without the aid of light? (to avoid day time movement that could draw attention).

This Topic is started so that we can have a discussion on how to prepare for this and how to improve upon skill that you may already have.

This happens to be one of my most extensive skill sets so anything I can offer I will happily do so. Yet I am sure I can learn from many of you out there...So please speak up...ask questions....Lets have a discussion.

[Inor]

This is a topic that I find incredibly interesting. Please share as much as you can.

I do know the area within about 100 miles of my home pretty well. I am pretty sure I can navigate it without a map without too many difficulties. But when I travel, especially to a city that I have not been to, I get really out of sorts if I cannot even figure out basic directions - like which direction is north on a cloudy day in a city on the plains?

[1moretoy]

In two words...hell no. I couldn't find my truck without the "find my car app":banghead:

[OSFG]

I have found it interesting while driving with my family to ask them "Which direction are we heading?" to get them to start thinking about which directions the roads we frequently drive run. This is how I start to teach my children to gain familiarity with our local area. I have bought each of my driving aged kids a GPS unit and set it to display North up all the time instead of direction of travel up. This allows them to see every road they drive on with its relation to North.

This is a way to start teaching yourself how the roads in your town are oriented as well as where destinations you go are in a cardinal direction instead of just turn by turn directions.

After a short time my kids know place X is north west about 5 miles or that our town is laid out with most roads running North to south and east to west but there are 2 major roads that bi-sect all of them running North west to south east.

This is just a simple first step you can take to learn your area better...I will post more advanced stuff as we go.

[1moretoy]

So if the front of my house is hot as hell in the afternoon that means it faces west.

[Inor]

That is one of the things I have alway appreciated about outstate roads around here: they ALWAYS run either exactly north-south or exactly east-west. And they run every section (I.E. square mile). So if you are navigating via roads, outstate MN or Iowa or the Dakotas is really not that hard. The further east you go, the harder it gets.

[OSFG]

WHen I go into a new city the first thing I do is locate all the major terrain features and which direction they are... For example..when I fly into Denver I note that the mountains are west and most of the major cities are running north from there. Interstate Highways are usually great aids in gaining basic direction knowledge.

All of the interstates that end with 5 run north to south and all that end with 0 run east to west. highways with 3 digits such as 295, 395, 695 etc are usually loops around a major area.
I may be mistaken here so I ask anyone with more knowledge to confirm but I think basically all US highways that end in even numbers are east west where odd numbers generally go north and south. This obviously takes in account that at times and east west running road will deviate to run north or south for awhile due to terrain but they over all move you in the either an east or west direction.

Also all highway mile markers begin at zero at each state state line starting from the south or the western state line. This generally will tell you how many miles from your southern or western state line border you are at any particular exit number. Example if I am at exit 43 on I-40 in North carolina...Its 43 miles to the state line where !-40 crosses into Tennesse.

In modern times most highways have adopted exit numbers that are reflective of the distance from the borders (unless the highway begins or doesnt extend to the western state line) instead of how they were in years past which was what number exit it happened to be in the sequence. Example...Exit 1 on I-83 in Pennsylvania was the 1st exit which was SHrewsbury....Now it is exit 4 and there is no 1,2,or 3 because the first exit off of I83 there is 4 miles past its southern border.

[OSFG]

So if the front of my house is hot as hell in the afternoon that means it faces west.

I note it this way...If I burn my hand on my door knob leaving the house at 10:00am My house faces east... If I burn my hand on my door when I get home around 4:00pm It faces west... Funny thing is...My house faces West...my aprtment faces east...so I'm burning my hand on the dark painted metal doors all the time in the summer.

[OSFG]

I should add that the first part of this will mainly be about navigating without anything but what is on the ground or highways around you or the skies over you. I may start a part two to discuss actual detailed navigation using a compass with or with out a map, or having a map but no compass. Unless folks think I should keep it all together as one thread.


Your call folks.

[Just Sayin']

I taught land nav in an E&E course many years ago. Some people through experience did not have any problems at all navigating the course with or without a compass or map. Others, who did not have any experience navigating were completely lost even with a compass and map. Some people have an innate compass and map in their head, but the vast majority have to learn it. It is one of the most important skills that you can acquire.

[OSFG]

I taught land nav in an E&E course many years ago. Some people through experience did not have any problems at all navigating the course with or without a compass or map. Others, who did not have any experience navigating were completely lost even with a compass and map. Some people have an innate compass and map in their head, but the vast majority have to learn it. It is one of the most important skills that you can acquire.

Yep your right...I think you could really help me spread the knowledge about this topic on this thread with your knowledge if we can get some folks asking questions...but in the mean time we can just discuss different lessons learned and methods for the "Guests" to read while lurking.

SO what do you think..Have a Part two thread that goes into Compasses and maps etc...or just combine it here?

[Just Sayin']

Keep it here, once hooked....

[Just Sayin']

Land navigation is pretty simple, once you break it into little chunks.

[Inor]

I may be mistaken here so I ask anyone with more knowledge to confirm but I think basically all US highways that end in even numbers are east west where odd numbers generally go north and south. This obviously takes in account that at times and east west running road will deviate to run north or south for awhile due to terrain but they over all move you in the either an east or west direction.

That is absolutely true with the interstate system. I do not know about the highway system. Also, the odd numbered interstates increase from west to east and the even numbered ones increase from south to north. In other words, I-5 runs north-south along the Pacific and I-95 runs north-south along the Atlantic. I-10 runs east-west near the southern border, I-90 runs near the northern border.

Three digit interstate numbers run around cities.

Yes - mile markers also increase from the west and from the south.

A couple other things I have noticed on my own and may or may not be accurate:

1- Rivers, east of the Appalachians generally flow south and east.

2 - Rivers west of the Appalachians but east of the Rockies, generally flow directly south. (The Ohio river does flow directly west for quite a ways before turning south. But that is an anomaly not the rule.)

3 - Rivers west of the Rockies generally flow south and west.

I guess that is that Continental Divide thing... :D But in this last part I could be completely full of shit. It is just something I observed traveling.

Edit: As I think about my geography, the rivers in the midwest all flow towards the Mississippi river regardless of weather it is east or west.

[OSFG]

To give a bit of history on how I started out navigation....I was a Ranger in the Army. We did most of our movements through the woods at night and I had to learn how to plan my routes, keep a pace count to measure distance and use a compass. This entailed understanding the difference in Grid north , magnetic north , and True north. As well as how to set up a compass to use the tritium illumination markers and how to understand natural drift habits and account for it. I then later learned about orienteering...or map terrain association, where you have a map...know where you are and then navigate without the aid of a compass.

Later I went to Desert storm...we had no electronic GPS at that time, and we also had no maps of the area (or very limited) and I had to conduct daily patrols of our perimeter beyond the range of the thermal sites of the Bradley fighting vehicles and M1 tanks. This amounted to 18-20 kilometer patrols every night without a map in the desert where terrain features are like looking at a sheet of brown paper.

Then Later I joined SF and went through the STAR course...anyone who has had to do it can tell you...its no joke. There I learned more advanced techniques. SO I have run the gambit with the exception of nautical navigation skills and celestial navigation. So with this knowledge I will try to keep my posts enlightening and and slowly evolve them and try to keep the verbiage civilian based.

[Just Sayin']

That is absolutely true with the interstate system. I do not know about the highway system. Also, the odd numbered interstates increase from west to east and the even numbered ones increase from south to north. In other words, I-5 runs north-south along the Pacific and I-95 runs north-south along the Atlantic. I-10 runs east-west near the southern border, I-90 runs near the northern border.

Three digit interstate numbers run around cities.

Yes - mile markers also increase from the west and from the south.

A couple other things I have noticed on my own and may or may not be accurate:

1- Rivers, east of the Appalachians generally flow south and east.

2 - Rivers east of the Appalachians but west of the Rockies, generally flow directly south. (The Ohio river does flow directly west for quite a ways before turning south. But that is an anomaly not the rule.)

3 - Rivers west of the Rockies generally flow south and west.

I guess that is that Continental Divide thing... :D But in this last part I could be completely full of shit. It is just something I observed traveling.

Edit: As I think about my geography, the rivers in the midwest all flow towards the Mississippi river regardless of weather it is east or west.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head there, Inor

[OSFG]

Now back to navigating without anything but what is naturally available....Inor is correct as far as I know and the one truth here is all major rivers run north to south or generally so...not south to north like in some other countries. Smaller creeks, streams etc do not follow this. They instead generally move southeast or south west until they join with the larger rivers. Just under stand that smaller streams/creeks will zig zag all over the place so they should not be used to guide you in a particular direction unless you know the area and where it lets out.

Our major mountain ranges run north and south but that is on a grand scale and its hard to distinguish when your right up inside of it.

Obviously we are in the norther Hemisphere and the sun (traveling east to west,,,well we are the ones traveling but you get the picture) will be slightly to the south of us as it passes thru the sky during the summer months and even more so in the winter months.

If you place a stick in the ground and mark where the shadow of the tip of it is on the ground and then wait an hour and mark the shadow of the tip again and the connect the two marks you will have a line that if you place both feet on will have you pointing north If you place your left foot closest to the first point you marked. Here is a good illustration of this:

http://wildernessarena.com/environment/navigation/using-the-sun-and-shadows-for-navigation

[Just Sayin']

I also learned my nav skills through the Army. I don't claim the provenance of OFSG, since I was a rotorhead and land nav was secondary to what I did for a living. Where OSFG is way more proficient than I will ever be, I may be able to translate into normal terms the idea he is trying to get across.

[OSFG]

You can also use a watch...with hands...not digital...but you can as long as you know where the hands would be.... by pointing the hour hand at the sun and then bi-secting the hour hand and 12 "o'clock position...this is now your north south line with southe extending in the general direction you are facing and north being behind you...again here is a good illustration:

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-an-Analog-Watch-as-a-Compass

[OSFG]

But what is important is you need to know where you are and where are you trying to go. Most of us know I get on these roads and drive x miles to grandma's house....But are you going generally north or generally south or what. Sure its great if you can just drive the roads there, but what if you can't because to do so would put you in harms way and you had to walk across country?

Start learning things like what is the major thing to the north south east and west along my route and behind my destination that I could not miss seeing.

Example...I know grandma is north west of me at 120 miles away. To the east of me is I-95 and some major rivers but I-95 runs north and east away from where I am going but on the west runs I-73/I-74 mostly North and south and is closer to where I am going. Grandma's house is south of I-40 and east of I-73/74 near Forest Oaks, NC

From this I know that I need to start walking north westerly....Do not cross over I-73/74 interstate and if I hit it I need to walk due North until I hit I-40. And if I hit I -40 first I have gone to far north and need to head west until I hit the Major area of Greensboro, where I-40 intersects with I-73/74. (But of course not enter this big city). However once I am fairly close I can head due south and find grandma's easily because I am familiar with her town and where she lives....

Wow..confused yet?

This is called hand railing and back stopping...Setting easily recognized boundaries along your route that you don't want to cross over or go beyond. This keeps you in the right area all the time.

[Inor]

This is great stuff SF! I was flying home to Minneapolis from Denver this morning. I looked out the window and noticed some green fields, and BUNCH of white windmills and a small city. Based on how long we had been flying and an average of 400 MPH I guessed that we were passing Sioux City, IA. I fired up the laptop and checked and that is exactly where we were. (Thank God for the direct grid of N-S country roads or we could have been coming in from the south as far as I knew.)

[machinejjh]

Great thread. Following it with interest.

[omegabrock]

I have bought each of my driving aged kids a GPS unit and set it to display North up all the time instead of direction of travel up. This allows them to see every road they drive on with its relation to North.

This is a way to start teaching yourself how the roads in your town are oriented as well as where destinations you go are in a cardinal direction instead of just turn by turn directions.




this is a really good idea i never would have thought of...im going to start doing that. i usually can tell which direction im going but it takes a minute to gain my bearings. "what time is it, where is the placement of the sun, never eat shredded wheat, then which way am i facing in relations to the sun"

edit: after reading the rest of the thread with the links, i realize that i can figure a general idea of which direction im going, not exact

[omegabrock]

I should add that the first part of this will mainly be about navigating without anything but what is on the ground or highways around you or the skies over you. I may start a part two to discuss actual detailed navigation using a compass with or with out a map, or having a map but no compass. Unless folks think I should keep it all together as one thread.


Your call folks.
for me, i prefer broken up topics with different driving points instead of having 1 huge thread that details everything

[Infidel]

I learned orienteering in the Boy Scouts many moons ago. I used to be pretty good with a map and compass and I'm fairly certain I can still do it. Without the aid of a map and compass I'm not sure I could find my way out of a paper bag. This thread has been very valuable so far. I especially like the links for finding your bearings using the sun and shadows. I think once I'm up and around again I'll take the family for a hike and start teaching the boys how to use a map and compass once I'm sure I remember how to do it. Keep up the good work guys, these posts have been great so far.

-Infidel

[OSFG]

Ok..after re reading some of my post I realized I may have confused some folks with the hand rails and back stops. I will use them several more times in later posts and that may help but if you would like a graphic display of how it works I can draw up a quick picture and post it. I'm just getting home so I may be up a little later. I'm taking two weeks off so I will have a lot of time to get on and update over the next couple of weeks.

[Just Sayin']

That would be helpful SF. I knew what you were saying, but didn't know they had a name until then. Great info on a need to know subject!

[Inor]

SF -

I'll throw this out as a specific topic because I know that you know the answer to my question, and I do not...

Let's say I am hiking on a cloudy day in the mountains just east of Seattle, WA. There is no sun, so no shadows and no way to use the sky as a navigation aid. If I get lost with no special preps, which is really easy to do because I have done it, how do I find north to work my way out? :D

[Baglady]

First off, I rely on my Hubby, who grew up hunting here, and knows all the area for miles around.
Second, Neither one of us know how to use a compass. We have one tho.
I would like to know how to use a compass.

[Sparkyprep]

I learned the use of a compass, a map, and how to triangulate when I was in he Boy Scouts. I still remember most of it, but I could use a refresher.

[Coppertop]

I learned the use of a compass, a map, and how to triangulate when I was in he Boy Scouts. I still remember most of it, but I could use a refresher.

+1 on that. I have gotten pretty good at relying on GPS's and could sure use a refresher.

[OSFG]

SF -
Let's say I am hiking on a cloudy day in the mountains just east of Seattle, WA. There is no sun, so no shadows and no way to use the sky as a navigation aid. If I get lost with no special preps, which is really easy to do because I have done it, how do I find north to work my way out? :D

OK..its always hard when your dealing with extremely damp areas like Seattle. What you will want to look for is an area with a fairly open sky view 360 degrees, Then look at the bark of the tree. On the northern side you will see more green/ more moss up higher in the crevasses in the bark. It will be subtle...but look for a little more green in the bark. It is the north side. But verify it as you move along. Not the low to the ground Moss I'm talking about mold like moss growing in the bark up several feet. Also those things that look like seashell growing out of the bark. I don't know what they are called, but they are like fungi or something. They will be more prevalent on the North side of trees as well.

Hope this helps.....its too late for me to keep going with more discussion..maybe tomorrow.

[OSFG]

The point is in seattle you will find moss 360...look higher and determine which side holds it longer...This could be because of shading so keep working until you know its north.

[OSFG]

OK so I have talked about how to find north and from that you can get general cardinal direction. These help you go the right way, but you need to start now thinking of destinations less as address and more of terrain features. Think about your kids school...which direction is it...what if you had to travel off roads to get there to pick your kid up after a SHTF situation (either due to traffic or violence etc). In cases like that there will be alot of people skirting roads to get there...Not necessarily the best place to be. So know which direction. What is a terrain feature on the left and right of you that you can use to keep you headed generally the right way. What is a terrain feature near it that can serve as your close proximity mark and what is an obvious one behind it from where you are...that can be used to prevent you from going to far past your destination.

Now I will talk about measuring distance as you move.

[OSFG]

In the military we refer to it as a pace count. This is where we count every step of the left (or right) foot as we walk. The most common measurements for maps are meters and Kilometers. This may be difficult for those who have never experienced using the metric system. and I don't want to insult anyone but I will explain. 100 meters is roughly equal to a football field including end zones. Most maps include measurements for Miles and statue miles, Nautical mile, etc...but most of us don't know how many feet or yards are in a mile.

For me I remember that a mile is 1.6 kilometers or 1600 meters (since 1000 meters is a kilometer). The way we learn our pace count is to measure out 100 meters across various terrains and then walk it. I for one walk 65 steps with my left foot for 100 meters on pavement....68 steps in moderate terrain and 72 in heavy foliage carrying a pack. This changes as you get older so you need to sort of test your self from year to year to see where you are.

I edited this because a picture is better

839

Here are some Ranger Bead that are used to keep track of distance traveled the lower part has the 9 beads and the upper part has 5 . This is so that you start out with all the beads in the down position. After every 100 meters you move a bead on the lower section up and repeat after each 100 meters walked. After the last one is up and you walk the next 100 meters you simply pull all 9 back down (representing 10x 100 meter segments and raise 1 of the beads on the upper section. This marks 1 kilometer and also puts the beads in the lower section back in place to continue as described above. If your measuring in miles you just have to remember that there are 16 x to get to a mile instead of just 10 for a kilometer..

Sorry if this is confusing...

Another easier way to measure distance but is a little less accurate is simply time based. The average person walks about a kilometer across fairly moderate terrain in 15-20 minutes. I recommend you go figure out your normal walking pace. For me it is 15 minutes (10 minutes on pavement) SO I just start walking and every 15 minutes I can estimate that I have gone a kilometer.

Most of us know what a football field looks like so its fairly easy to visualize a football field and then walk that distance and determine how long it took or how many steps to at least get an idea. Without this basic understanding and techniques you can find yourself stumbling for hours with no idea of how far you have gone...and therefore no idea how close you could be to getting to your destination.


More to come.

[OSFG]

So if you understood what I have outlined above you now have the means to determine direction. You hopefully know which way to go and roughly how far it is. You also know to establish handrails to keep you within a corridor and a backstop to prevent you from going to far. You also have the ability to measure your progress to determine how much further you need to go.

This can be done in a vehicle as well in city grids where you may have to avoid and by pass trouble. Simply understand the lateral distance you want to travel then if you have to detour. You dont count the distance you are heading that is taking you perpendicular to your route as route distance..refer to it as deviation distance and just know that once you get on a road that is heading in the correct direction...you will have to travel the reverse perpendicular direction for however much deviation distance you initially traveled.

Example: I know i have to travel 10 miles on Alpha street to my sons school (which happens to be east of me). After 3 miles I see smoke, stalled cars and alot of people so I turn left at the next street. (this happens to be 3rd street. I travel 3 miles on 3rd street until I get to a good road with light traffic and then turn right onto Charlie street. Now I travel charlie street for 7 miles. I noticed that charlie street curved a little further to the north since the sun was more to my right side as I drove. After 7 miles I see a street, 28th street. I know that I need to turn right and travel at least 3 miles (my original deviation distance) and possibly another mile or so to be in the vicinity of my sons school. Basically I will be looking for Alpha street in 3-4 miles once I turn right.

A good idea is to either intentionally go further than the 10 miles so you know that you will have to back track once you get back on Alpha street or intentionally travel shorter than 10 miles along your route distance so that you know you still need to travel east further.

Hitting it at 10 miles could put the school either a little east or a little west of you and create a situation where you may not know.


Am I even making sense to you all....and is this even remotely helpful or interesting...please let me know.

[Inor]

This is great stuff SF!

I follow a miniaturized version of this every week when I check into a new hotel room. ALWAYS the first thing I do once I get my bag to my room is to pace off the turns and paces to get to the fire escape. Having been through three hotel fires, I understand the value of being able to get to a stairway in the dark and smoke when I am half-awake.

Edit: Please keep it coming!

[OSFG]

The next topic I talk about will be maps, and how to read them...I will be using basic maps from an atlas that you would find in a gas station somewhere. I will explain about True North, Grid North, and Magnetic north and what that means (Its very very important by the way). This is known as the declination diagram.

And I will talk a little about the different grid systems and what that means. I will wait a little to see if anyone has additional questions on the previous topics. See you guys in a few days.

[Baglady]

Looking forward to it, SF. If I recall, it's the magnetic north that pertains to the use of the compass. And I have no idea what that means...

[OSFG]

The Declination diagram which is a part of nearly all maps lays out the three Norths that are out there. They are True North, Grid North and Magnetic North. Here is an image of how it looks on a map:

840

True north is North with respect to the lines of Longitude and should be used when navigating using that method.

Grid North is in reference to the Map lines that are drawn with equal measurements of the grid pattern and may not follow the Longitude lines (as they converge at the poles)

Magnetic North is where the iron ore deposits in the earth create a magnetic attraction...the strongest of which is in the Hudson bay area in north America, Canada.

So based on the diagram I gave there will be a degree listed above the lines drawn between the arrows which tells us that magnetic is x degrees from true and x degrees from Grid. sometime noth grid and magnetic will be on the same side away from true so use only the degree difference between grid and magnetic.

First let me say that if you think you can simply measure the direction you need to go on a map and apply it to a compass and get to where you are going you are fooling yourself. The difference in California is roughly 29-35 degrees so you could be heading North east when you should be heading north. It is very important and in the north it's even worse...Hey Inor..thats you buddy.

Now the key word here is LARS...I don't care if you've heard the acronyms Major to General or General to major..they are confusing most of the time...in this hemisphere remember this simple thing....LARS...Left Add, Right Subtract. (Major to General is the army trying to say Grid to magnetic or magnetic to Grid...its very dumb in my mind.

SO if you are measuring your direction on a map and need to convert it to a magnetic azimuth (using the picture I gave) you are going from Grid on the far left to Magnetic on the far right so you are going to the right so you will subtract...lets say that Grid to True is 3 degrees and True to Magnetic is 7 degrees. This is a total of 10 degrees between Grid to Magnetic. If you are looking at a map and use a protractor to compute the azimuth you must take to get to your destination and it is 300 degrees...when you actually start to follow your compass you must compute the declination and convert it..so with the example I gave...Grid to Magnetic...moving right on the declination diagram...you will subtract...10 from 300 equals 290 degrees...This is the compass heading you should follow.


Now if you are on course and see something like a hilltop and want to see if its on your map...you look along your compass and see the hill at 230 degrees. However when you draw the line from where you think you are on the map to the hill you need to convert it...your converting a Magnetic azimuth to a grid azimuth so you are moving left on the declination diagram so Left add...so draw the line along a 240 degrees mark on your protractor.


I hope this is making sense..I'm used to teaching folks who have some military background and its hard when I'm not doing it in person....

[omegabrock]

how do you place the protractor on the map? in my head, we were looking at the map and computing azimuth then a protractor appeared on the map but it kept spinning, throwing everything off

[Smokin04]

Jumping in late.

I know my land nav skills are pretty awesome, with or without a DAGR, and WITH map and compass. Had roughly 14 years of training with them. HOWEVER, take away a map, I'd be okay in a flat open terrain like open desert or plains. Take away a compass...I can find the basic directions N,S,E,W...but that's about the extent of it. Point to point navigation I will admit would be difficult for me to accomplish unless I knew the area previously. Landmark association, key terrain orientation, etc I think are extremely useful...but usually only to folks that know the area OR have a map and compass.

Ask me to navigate (on foot) at night without light, map, compass, or DAGR...humbly I admit, I would not be on point, because I won't know how to get us there.

[OSFG]

how do you place the protractor on the map? in my head, we were looking at the map and computing azimuth then a protractor appeared on the map but it kept spinning, throwing everything off

There are special protractors sold for maps and I will post an image of that as well as how to better modify them to make them more useful. Most people know a half circle protractor though. These have degrees marked on them and cover 180 degrees . How you use them can better be shown than described so I will take some pictures tonight

and post them.

[omegabrock]

that's exactly what i was thinking lol. the half circle. we never did any land nav in my units. terrain features on a map and pace count so i am soaking this in...keep it coming OSFG

[OSFG]

Here are a few types of protractors (often called compasses as well)

822 823

824


The top left one is the one normally used with Topographical maps which are scaled 1:25,000 or 1:50,000 or 1: 100,000 and is the one I will predominantly use to describe the process but I will make notes of the semi circle protractor as well.

[OSFG]

825

When using this protractor you place the index on your position and ensure that the vertical base line and the horizontal lines are parallel with the grid reference lines on your Map.

However before doing so draw the lines to the next point you want to go on your map. AT this point its good to mention you should laminate your map and use water soluble markers so that once you have the measurements you need you can completely erase the info. You don't want someone who might kill you to be able to follow your map and directions to Grandma's house and kill her too.

So once you have the line drawn from where you are to your next point. Place the protractor on your position as I mentioned and then look at where the line passes through the numbers on the edge. Use the inner set of numbers (360 degrees), not the outer numbers (6400 mils). Where ever the line crosses this is your heading. BUT IT IS A GRID AZIMUTH. YOU MUST CONVERT IT TO MAGNETIC before you follow it. So using the declination diagram I showed:
830 826

We see that we are moving from Grid to Magnetic which is a movement to the right so subtract the declination degrees from your Grid azimuth and that is now your Magnetic Azimuth to follow. Before I said that in this case there was 3 degrees between grid to true and an addition 7 degrees from true to magnetic for a total of 10 degrees between Grid to magnetic. Each map sheet will have different numbers based on where in the world you are.

So lets say your first point was due north at 0 degrees from you on your map...You will follow a 350 degree magnetic heading to get to that point.


Next step is how far is it.

[OSFG]

827

A quick easy mod I make to mine is to take a needle and heat it up and make a very tiny hole directly on the index and I place a piece of thread about 8 inches through that hole and knot it at both ends to keep it falling out. If you do that you can avoid drawing lines and just line the index mark up on your location and pull the tread tight and align it with where your going and ...viola!!!...read the azimuth and no erasing required.

[OSFG]

829

[OSFG]

You can do the same thing with any protractor even the semi circular one that have 0-180 degrees marked but just remember that 0 degrees is North, 90 degrees is east 180 degrees is south, 270 degrees is west. So if you're measuring a route to the southwest - west or north west, you have to rotate it to the opposite side (since it only displays 0-180) you flip it so that 0 is now pointed south and you will add what ever the measurement is to 180 degrees.

You can use mils too but they are really too exacting to me to use unless you are surveying....and all the tiny marks just blend together after about 1 mile of walking.

Most folks I know trimmed off the Mils just to eliminate confusing marks.

[OSFG]

Now as a general rule you will have several different directions to plot out going from 1 point to the next. Trying to walk a straight line will waste alot of energy and typically get you lost. So find intermediate point that you can clearly identify to help you stay on course.

From here to that hill top 3 miles away. and then from that hill top to that rail/creek intersection 2 miles away and then from there to the pond 2 miles away....etc.

When planning a route to a place that is hard to find or obscured by heavy woods I intentionally set a point to the left of it about 100 meters or so as my azimuth point. This way when I get there (distance wise) I KNOW its to my RIGHT and then I only have to worry about whether I walked to far or not far enough. If you try to go straight at it you will drift left or right some and then you have to figure out is it left, right, shorter, or longer..So I'm just taking one of those guesses out by off-setting. This allows me to also scout my approach to the area and see if I encounter evidence of traffic, etc.

[OSFG]

I'll pause for the day to see if anyone has things to say...or questions to ask.

Oh this is only a small part of protractor use and maps...We will get into "Intersection" and "Resection" To figure out where you are and where something else is on a map.

Resection: The use of a reverse azimuth bearings from two or more visually identifiable points that you can identify on your map to determine your exact location.

Intersection: The use of two different bearings taken from two or more known locations to determine the exact location of someone or something you see in order to plot it on a map accurately.

[Innkeeper]

Dang I have missed another good thread, as soon as I finish my project for environmental science I will be back on to read this whole thing through.

this was my bread and butter as an aviator, and just as important when I became a Red Leg, and an 11H.

[omegabrock]

825

When using this protractor you place the index on your position and ensure that the vertical base line and the horizontal lines are parallel with the grid reference lines on your Map.

However before doing so draw the lines to the next point you want to go on your map. AT this point its good to mention you should laminate your map and use water soluble markers so that once you have the measurements you need you can completely erase the info. You don't want someone who might kill you to be able to follow your map and directions to Grandma's house and kill her too.

So once you have the line drawn from where you are to your next point. Place the protractor on your position as I mentioned and then look at where the line passes through the numbers on the edge. Use the inner set of numbers (360 degrees), not the outer numbers (6400 mils). Where ever the line crosses this is your heading. BUT IT IS A GRID AZIMUTH. YOU MUST CONVERT IT TO MAGNETIC before you follow it. So using the declination diagram I showed:
830 826

We see that we are moving from Grid to Magnetic which is a movement to the right so subtract the declination degrees from your Grid azimuth and that is now your Magnetic Azimuth to follow. Before I said that in this case there was 3 degrees between grid to true and an addition 7 degrees from true to magnetic for a total of 10 degrees between Grid to magnetic. Each map sheet will have different numbers based on where in the world you are.

So lets say your first point was due north at 0 degrees from you on your map...You will follow a 350 degree magnetic heading to get to that point.


Next step is how far is it.

it's coming back to me...i did learn this years ago lol

[OSFG]

I want to pause at this point to talk about Maps.....There are a ton of types. I will focus on maps you will find at gas stations and rest stops...but understand not all of them have the declination diagram information included so here is a good reference:

833

Remember that this is your magnetic difference from TRUE NORTH so if your right of the zero point your subtracting and if your left of it you are adding this to your grid measured azimuth.

LEARN THE DECLINATION IN YOUR AREA OF INTEREST AND REMEMBER IT.

[OSFG]

835

So this is a typical map you will get from the gas station or welcome center. Actually its just the top tight corner of it...but if you look you will see red lines and on the fiar right and the top you will see numbers. These are the Lines of Longitude and Lines of latitude.

Longitude lines run north to south..Latitude lines run East to west.

Q) So what are Latitude lines and Longitude lines and what do they even mean?

A) Well they are your Grid lines you will use to align your protractor Other than that...well...it gets complicated....More to come.

[TJC44]

Is there a way to put all of these posts into a document? OTP doesn't have a file area does it? Awesome information SF!

[OSFG]

You know I was hoping for some question and answer stuff that a video couldn't give, but I'm thinking of doing these as a series of videos and posting them to a thread here. It would definately make it easier to explain....

[Innkeeper]

I think you can get the topo maps and others like we used for Land Nav courses through your local DNR or that may be because I am near to CP Grayling. I bet you would have to pay for them , but might be a good thing to have for your local area at least.

I will check on that and get back I have to run down and finally get that retired ID card my Active one is about to expire.

[Baglady]

On your declination diagram, I'm 1 degree left of 0. 0 is true north, right?
I'm going to have to get a protractor, but I think I'm understanding this..

[OSFG]

On your declination diagram, I'm 1 degree left of 0. 0 is true north, right?
I'm going to have to get a protractor, but I think I'm understanding this..

BAG LADY I SCREWED UP. I had to go back and research this because I had a nagging suspicion I was wrong...and I was.

Yes you have it correct you are 1 degree from True North.

I also had forgotten a fact that I need to clarify. When using Latitude and Longitude lines it is TRUE NORTH that you use. I will explain in another post after I make a correction to another earlier post.

[omegabrock]

here's a simple question - i am between 6 and 7 so would i add 6, 7 or 6.5?

[Baglady]

So I was wrong. I was trying to figure out how to get my calculations without a protractor.
Your diagrams for visual comprehension are great, btw.
I think we're gonna have to spend some more time on this, Sensi.
Is there a grading curve? If not, i'm screwed...

[Innkeeper]

Takes a lot of time to get where you can make a mkI eyeball estimate of location and I do not trust them enough for anything important, I actually put a protractor and maps of the area in my B.O.B. I have a bunch of them in a drawer from when I taught map reading in my unit, it is a perishable skill. Could be a fun thing to make a day of it with the family and do a scavenger hunt thing providing maps and protractors and hiding things at locations and practice land nav at the same time.

Heck maybe OSFG could do something like that at the next Get Together.

[OSFG]

here's a simple question - i am between 6 and 7 so would i add 6, 7 or 6.5?

You can try to do a half degree but it really won't work much. You can use either just know that if you use 6 you will likely be a few meters to the right of your target at the end and if you use 7 you will be a few meters to the left...if you stay on course accurately that is.

[OSFG]

OK I MADE A MISTAKE EARLIER....I had a nagging suspicion I was wrong so I went back and did some refresher training....

SO here is the correction.

TRUE NORTH is in reference to the Lines of Longitude and GRID North is in reference to the Grid marking system being used.

A Grid Reference system relies on all grid lines being an equal distance apart and uniform in size. Whereas the lines of longitude converge at the poles and are never actual parallel and a uniform distance apart.

So to be accurate if you are using the Lat/Long lines and method to plot your course you would use the True north to magnetic north conversion, If you are using a map with any other type of grid reference system you would use Grid North to Magnetic north conversion (Both still follow the LARS rule).


The Declination layout is True North to Magnetic declination...Every GRID Referenced Map will have it and the added Grid declination on it.

838

My apologies for this and I hope I didn't totally screw you up and lose your confidence in what I am trying to convey.

[OSFG]

I think I am going to just do some videos to teach this...it will allow me to do a better job and also something I can pass on to my kids and grand kids as a training tool.

[Innkeeper]

I think I am going to just do some videos to teach this...it will allow me to do a better job and also something I can pass on to my kids and grand kids as a training tool.

Shame you can't wait for spring I have to do it for the coast guard auxiliary then you could just tape me. lol

[OSFG]

Shame you can't wait for spring I have to do it for the coast guard auxiliary then you could just tape me. lol

I will certainly defer to any who will provide better information...and I can wait. I merely saw a lack of discussion on the topic and sought to provide some insight on the matter.

[Innkeeper]

I will certainly defer to any who will provide better information...and I can wait. I merely saw a lack of discussion on the topic and sought to provide some insight on the matter.

hey now...lol you are more then welcome to do your videos, heck I hate phones let alone my picture taken, no photos will help me hide from the oppressive gov't better. But hey I will give any insights into your class as I can and you will accept, I never mind helping teach things and will do it myself if need be, besides you have seen my free time for the last month or so. :smashcomputer:

It reminds me I need to sit down with the coasties and solidify things and agree to loan my soul back to the Gov't again.:ughh:

[OSFG]

LOL....Oh I wasn't gonna show my face in the videos, just maybe my hands pointing out what I'm saying on a map or compass... I will have to think about how to demonstrate the thumb to cheek method of shooting an azimuth without showing my face or resorting to a dumb ass balaclava.

It's always good to get others who do this to jump in and lend a hand or even take over. The goal for me is helping someone gain some knowledge that might just save their lives or those of their loved ones.

I'm just going to take a day or two to think about whether its good to keep going on this thread vice doing a video or writing it up as a "Navigation skills, tips, and tricks for the Modern prepper" like manual.

[TJC44]

Hot, 20something model for the videos? Lol

[Baglady]

OK I MADE A MISTAKE EARLIER....I had a nagging suspicion I was wrong so I went back and did some refresher training....

SO here is the correction.

TRUE NORTH is in reference to the Lines of Longitude and GRID North is in reference to the Grid marking system being used.

A Grid Reference system relies on all grid lines being an equal distance apart and uniform in size. Whereas the lines of longitude converge at the poles and are never actual parallel and a uniform distance apart.

So to be accurate if you are using the Lat/Long lines and method to plot your course you would use the True north to magnetic north conversion, If you are using a map with any other type of grid reference system you would use Grid North to Magnetic north conversion (Both still follow the LARS rule).


The Declination layout is True North to Magnetic declination...Every GRID Referenced Map will have it and the added Grid declination on it.

838

My apologies for this and I hope I didn't totally screw you up and lose your confidence in what I am trying to convey.Sooo, I wasnt wrong..?
Gonna do my happy dance!

[Baglady]

Hot, 20something model for the videos? LolHot, 20something GUY model..?? Got my vote!

[omegabrock]

Gonna do my happy dance!

this can be played at the end of the video OSFG makes lol

[Jeep]

Hey brother i made it here using the internet, who needs a compass anymore lol.

[Dwight55]

I'm in deep muddy without my luminous old army style compass.

But with it, . . . about the only way I can't go, . . . is straight up, . . . I'm Navy and ANG, . . . not Air Force.

Land nav has always been fairly easy for me, . . . but I sure have seen some guys suffer trying it.

Water nav is a whole lot more difficult, . . . cotton pickin waves keep movin, . . . and change their shapes, . . . no trees either.

May God bless,
Dwight