New garden

[omegabrock]

Is it hard to take a wooded area and turn it to a garden area? I mean soil and ground, not clearing it out. I would assume the ground would have to be at least decently fertile. 856

[Sparkyprep]

Not necessarily. The trees may have stripped the topsoil of nutrients. It's tough to say. Also, clearing the area, and grubbing out all the existing roots will be a pain.

[omegabrock]

Yeah but I was thinking that I could start clearing when I started the garden. I'm going to be starting real small because I have never even played a flower before...slowly working up in size as I get more comfortable

[Pauls]

You are going to need a lot of steer or horse "fertilizer" to add to the soil and probably some lime to return it to a neutral state PH wise. The soil around conifers (most evergreen trees) is very acidic and while blue-berries love it most veggies won't do well in soil that acidic. You can also use rabbit fertilizer but don't use chicken fertilizer to grow crops that need to flower to produce the edibles. I would stick with steer and/or horse manure and add enough lime to bring the soil back to neutral about six months to a year before you plant. You probably won't need to add any peatmoss or other compost to break the soil up because there will be lots of vegetable matter in the soil from years of needles dropping on it.

Get a PH test kit and be prepared to spend money on fertilizer and lime. The forest floor is very low in nutrients so you will need to add them. You might also invest in some worms or find some mushroom mat and spread that in your garden area. It breaks down any hydrocarbon (plant, animal, and chemical) into good usable soil. It even works on used motor oil to break it down to the point where other plants can grow well in the previously "contaminated" soil.

[omegabrock]

So when you say a lot, I don't assume 1 horse wouldn't produce a lot. There are a few different places with different terrain - some wooded, some cleared wooded, some grassy and some bare - I was just thinking this area because there is a natural rain drainage that a few other properties drain through passed this area, if that makes sense. I figured it would be good for the water, would cut down on that aspect I might have to provide water to. I might just carve a path out through it straight back to a different cleared out area and test it.

[omegabrock]

That's just assuming the time it would take to get the wooded area crop ready would take way a lot longer considering you said use the lime 6 months out, I might be too optimistic but was hoping I would get something started in around 6 months

[Pauls]

If you start getting the ground ready now it will be ready to plant this spring. You can't add natual fertilizer and put the plants in it - they will burn up from the high nitrate content - although you might get away with it if you use only horse manure. Steer manure is too hot for fresh planting. One horse might be enough for a small garden and you could slowly increase the area as the soil "sweetens". You will definitely need the PH test kit though so get that first.

[omegabrock]

Ok awesome, yeah I will get the test kit and see what I'm working with from the start. I'll only have 1 horse for a while and I plan on a small area to start. Still not sure how big but not more than a couple squared feet...which reminds me, have ou heard of the square foot gardening?

[Pauls]

I have probably heard of everything from the "postage stamp" garden to vertical "gardens" but I will tell you that intensive gardening requires rotation and a lot of fertilizer. The rotation is needed to keep out blights and insect damage and the fertilizer is what feeds the plants. The more plants you grow the more fertilizer it takes. There are some plants that put nitrogen back into the soil, they are called nitrogen fixators but most of them dont put in enough for intensive growing and you have to add neutrients anyway. If you grow leafy veggies, like lettuce, cabage and spinach then you will want to add some metals into the soil too. Iron, calcium, and zinc are the major ones but magnesium and selenium are important too. The selenium is probably present in the soil of forest land but magnesium is hit and miss. Why the metals? Leafy plants are the best sources of dietary metals if the metals are present in the soil. They are also good sources of the water vitamins like C and B vitamins.

[omegabrock]

Hmm...so maybe to do certain things i would want to can and store more quantities in the square foot and everything else in the normal one...probably later down the road though

[Pauls]

It is your garden. You try it the way you want and it will evolve to suit your needs and your pocketbook. We started out with a very small patch (about ten by four feet) and have grown it into an area many times that. we found out this last season that we want to expand the potatoes and tomatoes and use those areas to expant the carrots and onions. The strawberry patch is four by eight feet by itself. Next year we will be adding to the garden with raised beds so we can plant sooner for what seems to be an ever expanding garden.

At our age will will probably start decreasing our garden in a few years just because we can't handle the work load. Be that as it may I have informed my wife that the cantaloupe stays! She told me that she wants to add watermelon. So it isn't shrinking next year at all.

I keep telling my wife that I am not a farmer - I'm a "gentleman rancher". I don't think she gets it though because I am still working in the garden with her. I guess this is what was meant whe we took that oath for better or WORSE. I guess she's worth it though. She gives a lot more than she gets - but she is still happy to be my wife.

[omegabrock]

Sounds like the life man. I'm happy for your extra workload...that's what shows she's worth it. Well, I am one step closer to my dream and I have a woman that is the biggest pain in the ass at times but that's why I know she'll be there til the end. Thanks for the advice

[Sarge7402]

Don't know how big your family is or what you enjoy eating. There's just two of us and we did a 20 X 20 cut out garden in the back yard. It's surrounded on both sides by tall hard and soft wood trees. We've also got a 10 X 20 patch on the side of the house for beans and a 10 X 10 patch on the other side of the house next to the drive way.

We planted beans tomatoes, peppers, Cukes and so far have since 1 Jul taken about three ponds of vegies out every two day. Got right at two plus pounds of peppers and beans today.

We've also started our late fall planting of carrots, turnips and cabbages.

One thing that works well when you first start out is to plant beans or peas - any kind it doesn't really matter as they will help rebuild any nutrient loss existing in the soil.

We used miracle grow and it seems to work pretty well, but a buddy south of us uses chicken poop and his vegies (he's got four adults to feed) seem to produce quite a bit more. Course he's had his garden right at 15 years now and ours has only been in place for less than three

[omegabrock]

Right now it's 4 of us including a 7 year old and a 2 year old. The end goal is to make enough veggies and stuff to feed us plus stock some more. I'm starting with 0 food preps except for the 2 week shopping we usually have.

[RWalls]

I cleared an acre of mixed woods last year. I planted a few fruit trees on the back of it and some blackberries and asparugus. The soil is lacking. Whenever I get time I am going to get a few cubic yards of composted cow manure tilled in. I really hope to knock it out soon. The soil isn't really usable as it is now.

[omegabrock]

I can't wait to get blackberries and fruit trees planted