What is your Tradeskill?

[Montana Rancher]

After the economy collapses, and after the slaughter that entails if your bug out bag or bug out location is intact how are you going to make a living?

Trade skills will be very relevant, what is yours without electricity or resupply?

For me I have a reliable gravity fed irrigated field and a lot of seeds, I would happily hire people that had a green thumb to help get a crop off the field, are you that person?

I would also need security and intelligence, are you that person?

Cooking from scratch? Foraging local plants for food? A strong back to haul water?

What is your trade skill?

[Sarge7402]

I think you may have struck a nerve. I've always believed that the solution to long term survival is not what you have stored or you yourself can do, but how you can fit into the structure of a small 600 - 2000 community. One of the best and earliest survival reads is Pat Frank's Alas Babylon about a nuclear war in the late 50's and a community that survives in north florida.

[Infidel]

I've got a few skill I can trade on I suppose, security being the main skill. I'm also a part time leather worker which might be a handy skill. I also make knives part time and am pretty handy with an anvil and a cross pein hammer. I'm not terrible with rough carpentry either so building simple structures could be a useful skill. General tinkerer and laborer I guess would be my title after SHTF.

-Infidel

[James m]

I'll be a carpenter. I trained two years as a carpenter. The guy instructing wanted everyone to learn on hand tools first. So it was hand saws and hammers and nails along with planers. Rip saws and crosscut saws.

[Sparkyprep]

After the economy collapses, and after the slaughter that entails if your bug out bag or bug out location is intact how are you going to make a living?

Trade skills will be very relevant, what is yours without electricity or resupply?

For me I have a reliable gravity fed irrigated field and a lot of seeds, I would happily hire people that had a green thumb to help get a crop off the field, are you that person?

I would also need security and intelligence, are you that person?

Cooking from scratch? Foraging local plants for food? A strong back to haul water?

What is your trade skill?

Yes. All of that, and then some. I raise cattle as well. You want a steak, you come see me. I'm an electrician by trade, and I can fix your electric stuff, and get the juice flowing.

[RWalls]

Trapping, canning, carpentry, cooking. I would say gardening but I would probably starve off my garden. Well, not true. If the economy collapsed I wouldn't be working so I would be able to put the appropriate amount of time into it.

[Baglady]

My Hubby and I work as a team, and he's taught me everything I know about gardening, raising pigs, plumbing,and carpentry.
I've taught him about horses, horseshoeing, painting, and cleaning.
We've learned together about cooking and canning.
He still knows more than I do about most things.
He has mastered the art of "Jiggy Rigging" things so they'll work. He does mechanic work on our tractors, etc. And he does some Electrical work.
He also hunts, and dresses his kills.
I can shoot. Never killed anything, never hunted.
Left to my own, I guess I'd be a vegetarian...
Sucks to be me...on my own...:crazy:

[Pauls]

I have a mind that stores processes and creates new processes. I can do pretty much anything with metal using hand tools or machinery. I can build and operate stills, forges and rudementary (read strong to the point of absurdity) woodworking. I have made guns, crossbows, rockets and even a small cannon. I can do most any electrical work up to three phase and some plumbing.

I guess if I were to put myself in a single box it would be labeled "problem solver".

[Deebo]

Professional eater.

[shootbrownelk]

Well, if the economy collapses not too many folks will want their old cars restored/painted. So I guess I would die.
I too am a fabricator/tinkerer/repairman...that may help.

[Slippy]

People say I'm a good guy to have around the camp. Quick with a joke or a smart ass comment but with a smile and twinkle in my eye.

Not the smartest or the best leader or strongest warrior but one of the first to pick up a shovel or draw a plan on a napkin. Not the first to fight, but the first to break one up. I'll do what I say and make sure I don't say what I can't do. But I'll rub some people the wrong way and will find your weakness and exploit it. And if you're weak and unwilling to learn, I'll nudge on you like a 9 pound hammer.

f I drink a bit too much you can bet your ass I'll be up early. I'm not PC and that doesn't go over well in today's world. I'm just me and ain't changing. Jack of all trades, master of none.

[Reptilicus]

Male gigolo , but I will gladly donate my services to help repopulate, free of charge!!!

[1moretoy]

Dreamer, designer, fabricator, welder, painter, overall tinkerer...I don't read directions first nor do I need blueprints. It's all in my head, my sick little head.

[Montana Rancher]

I like to reload and am an expert cleaner of weapons, I also have a decent backstock of reloading supplies.

I also have worked up considerable skill in processing meat, smoking, sausage, and brining meat without refrigeration.

Same with canning meat and vegies, I also have practiced at fermenting vegies and make a decent sour kraut.

I have some skill making homemade wine, and have a still although I have never used it, I have several books on how to make grain alcohol, I also have several hundred pounds of grain in storage.... about 1400 lbs or so.

I have the technology to arc and wire feed weld, even if the grid is down, even if I run out of gas.

Just some ideas, I have some farm land but currently only raise grass hay on it, if you have decent skills in gardening that would be very useful to me.

[omegabrock]

Well, I have been fixing stuff and taking other stuff apart my entire life. If it moves, I can break it or fix it depending on what's needed. I'm creative, so I'm pretty good at fixing problems and finding unorthodox solutions. I like to think of myself as another jack of all trades, but I'm pretty specific in a few things and lack general knowledge in others so that's probably not a description. I specialized in hydraulics and tracks...I'm good with weapons from bare hands to blades to handguns to rifles. I could do security but I know there are others out there better than me...I like to cook and even better at eating

[Infidel]

People say I'm a good guy to have around the camp. Quick with a joke or a smart ass comment but with a smile and twinkle in my eye.

Not the smartest or the best leader or strongest warrior but one of the first to pick up a shovel or draw a plan on a napkin. Not the first to fight, but the first to break one up. I'll do what I say and make sure I don't say what I can't do. But I'll rub some people the wrong way and will find your weakness and exploit it. And if you're weak and unwilling to learn, I'll nudge on you like a 9 pound hammer.

f I drink a bit too much you can bet your ass I'll be up early. I'm not PC and that doesn't go over well in today's world. I'm just me and ain't changing. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Slippy, you're my kind of guy. I've been rubbing people the wrong way my whole life, usually the terminally stupid or just plain useless.

-Infidel

[Montana Rancher]

A lot of good input here, most of out part to prep is understanding out strengths and weaknesses.

[nephilim]

Qualified in welding, carpentry, metal working, gardening and computing...

What do I find most relaxing and peaceful? Woodworking.
What do I find most rewarding for effort? Gardening
What do I find most useful in survival? All but computing.

[Infidel]

A lot of good input here, most of out part to prep is understanding out strengths and weaknesses.

You are absolutely right. I will add a willingness to learn and do things for ourselves is a big part also. Big stockpiles are great if you have the room or income to allow such things but knowledge and the skill to do things for yourself will go a lot further than the stockpiles will.

-Infidel

[Montana Rancher]

You are absolutely right. I will add a willingness to learn and do things for ourselves is a big part also. Big stockpiles are great if you have the room or income to allow such things but knowledge and the skill to do things for yourself will go a lot further than the stockpiles will.

-Infidel

Good point, Some other things to look into and skill up on, and things you may already know but haven't considered...

Hunting, if you are a 1 shot kill guy, that is a skill

Butchering, if you can cut it up without puking, that is a skill

Cooking, I recently read an article about boiling the bones of an animal with soup, it is old school but until I read it I didn't really think about it, makes sense to me.

Knife Sharpening, I produced a video on youtube called "sharpening for dummies 101", I am amazed of the number of people that can't get a razor sharp knife. It seems lately just buy the disposable blades (wretch)

Wood cutting, especially with hand tools is something I don't know but would pay for shtf.

Fishing

trapping

Security

Soap Making

Mortician (big buck here)

Doctor, nurse, chiropractor, physical therapist, etc

[Coppertop]

One of the weaknesses I had was medical, but I am in the process of changing that.

Usually a one shot hunter, fishing (although not well), cook, woodworker, I can cowboy and ranch, Pilot..... Just a lot of trades that I am ok in but not really have any one thing I'm great at. Kind of like a lot of us around here.

Like someone said as long as our minds are actively seeking new and more info- we are ahead of most of the sheep!

[Infidel]

I've always been pretty good at sharpening knives but never stropped them before, I always kind of figured sharp is sharp, it's not going to make a difference. This year as I was doing my opening day prep work I decided to give it a shot so I got my leather working strop out (used mostly on the swivel knife for carving) and ran my knives over it. Let me tell you what, just get these knives near your arm and the hair will fall off of fright. These things are scary sharp, like look at it cross eyed and it'll cut you sharp. I will never sharpen another knife without a strop. As a side note, after field dressing and skinning the buck I shot I put the knife to the strop again and it's still just as sharp as it was before hand.

Now for anyone looking for stropping leather I have a ton of scrap pieces I'd be willing to part with for a nominal fee. All you need to do is pick up some Jewler's Rouge or polishing wheel compound and rub it into the leather. I've been using Task Force Light Polishing #4 Cleaning Compound on my strop. It's available at Lowe's and does a great job on the strop. If anyone is interested in stropping leather, send me a PM and let me know how big of a piece your looking for and I'll get you a price (a long piece I'd have to cut from a hide but that's no big deal).

-Infidel

[Montana Rancher]

An interesting post, I've never heard of using a polishing compound on a strop, sound like you are cheating, but as I've never used one, what do I know.

[Infidel]

It might be cheating a bit, this is the recommended stropping procedure for stropping a swivel knife so I figured it should work on my hunting knives too. Works like a charm and puts a nice polish on the edge, even better than my Arkansas stone which if I had to guess is somewhere in the 1600 grit range although I'm really not sure. With a swivel knife using the strop full of jeweler's rouge or polishing compound makes the knife glide through leather like it was hot butter. If the knife isn't stropped you can feel it dragging through the leather. The polishing compound may well be unnecessary but since my strop was full of it already I figured what could it hurt. Somewhere in my safe I have an old leather strop from a barber shop, it's tucked away with my grandfather's straight razors, I never considered using it for knives I guess.

-Infidel

[Montana Rancher]

An Arkansas stone is about 800 grit, the black stones get over that a bit but not much, maybe 1000 but I it varies depending on the quarry.

Which isn't a dis, 800 grit is a really fine surface, and most will never learn to use it to its max potential.

I'm looking into stropping, sounds like the final step I haven't messed with.

[Arklatex]

I have a few skills I might be able to use to earn a living post SHTF. Mostly construction related.

Basic carpentry

Concrete work including pre-casting

Brick work

Basic plumbing

Tree felling with axes

Gardening

Outdoor cooking

Fishing and hunting

I also have a strong work ethic and the back to go with it. Plus a never ending desire to learn new skills.

[Infidel]

...I also have a strong work ethic and the back to go with it. Plus a never ending desire to learn new skills.

This is probably the single best skill you could have. It never ceases to amaze me how lazy people are. There's an awful lot of people that are not going to make it when the SHTF just out of pure laziness. People work harder to get out of work than they would to just do what needs to be done.

-Infidel

[Kahlan]

I've started trying to learn as much as I can about as many areas as I can. My skills so far are gardening, canning, raising chickens for meat and eggs, fishing, outdoor cooking, can crochet (afghans, scarves etc), learning to shoot and I do pretty darn well for an amateur). But there's soooo much more I want to learn and I have fun and enjoy learning. There's definitely not a lazy bone in my body.

In my future soon to do list is archery, raising rabbits, candle/soap making, quilting. There's more but it's early and I've only had 1 cup of coffee.

[Infidel]

I've started trying to learn as much as I can about as many areas as I can. My skills so far are gardening, canning, raising chickens for meat and eggs, fishing, outdoor cooking, can crochet (afghans, scarves etc), learning to shoot and I do pretty darn well for an amateur). But there's soooo much more I want to learn and I have fun and enjoy learning. There's definitely not a lazy bone in my body.

In my future soon to do list is archery, raising rabbits, candle/soap making, quilting. There's more but it's early and I've only had 1 cup of coffee.

You'll enjoy archery, I find it very soothing. It's also nice to be able to work on my shooting skills in the yard instead of having to venture off to the range. I'd like to get into raising rabbits but there's no room here for that, maybe the next house.

-Infidel

[Montana Rancher]

I've started trying to learn as much as I can about as many areas as I can. My skills so far are gardening, canning, raising chickens for meat and eggs, fishing, outdoor cooking, can crochet (afghans, scarves etc), learning to shoot and I do pretty darn well for an amateur). But there's soooo much more I want to learn and I have fun and enjoy learning. There's definitely not a lazy bone in my body.

In my future soon to do list is archery, raising rabbits, candle/soap making, quilting. There's more but it's early and I've only had 1 cup of coffee.

A great post, how close are you to Montana?

[Kahlan]

Only about 32 hours or so... :)

[big paul]

earning a living?? after SHTF i'll be too busy surviving to "earn a living", in any case what would they pay me with? old currency that only fit to wipe my backside with? no thanks, i'll be sitting tight and not advertising my presence.

[Just Sayin']

I have a lot of different skills, really good at some, knowledgeable in others and I saw it done on YouTube once in a few. The greatest skill I have is resourcefulness, with the drive to do whatever it takes to get something done a very close second. I know that I don't know everything, and never will, but my wife and I learn quickly and know how to improvise. Growing up in the country, Boy Scouts and serving in the military gave me a base of not only knowledge, but also experience that still serves me well today. Sometimes we just need to figure things out for ourselves, and time isn't always a luxury.

[pheniox17]

I can fix shit (poop) with shit (poop)

[James m]

How can you tell if the poop is broken?

[Innkeeper]

I grew up working on my own cars, and working on my Uncles Dairy Farm even had to milk the cows by hand when they were sick....never a fun think to do...... after school I joined the Army.....I have deployed all around the world at different times doing different jobs 15U (Chinook Helicopter mech) 45K(Tank Turret Mech and weapons) 45B (Small arms) 11H (TOW Inf) 13P (FDC Chief). Now that I am retired I am finishing a teaching degree and working with guns, while I learn small gardening in my back yard and reloading from the guys at work. I have hunted since I was 12 except when the army had me overseas and fished, I am pretty proficient at both , but spend most of my hunting time Bird hunting (grouse and wood****) as well as squirrels and rabbits. I do love learning new skills and keep learning when I get a chance. I was also CLS in the Army Combat Life Saver, falls between basic skills and medic.

[Montana Rancher]

How can you tell if the poop is broken?


I grew up working on my own cars, and working on my Uncles Dairy Farm even had to milk the cows by hand when they were sick....never a fun think to do...... after school I joined the Army.....I have deployed all around the world at different times doing different jobs 15U (Chinook Helicopter mech) 45K(Tank Turret Mech and weapons) 45B (Small arms) 11H (TOW Inf) 13P (FDC Chief). Now that I am retired I am finishing a teaching degree and working with guns, while I learn small gardening in my back yard and reloading from the guys at work. I have hunted since I was 12 except when the army had me overseas and fished, I am pretty proficient at both , but spend most of my hunting time Bird hunting (grouse and wood****) as well as squirrels and rabbits. I do love learning new skills and keep learning when I get a chance. I was also CLS in the Army Combat Life Saver, falls between basic skills and medic.

I'm just checking your spell check, you mentioned you were an FDC Chief 13P, but I had the same MOS and it was 13E, maybe you were in a different branch, or had fat fingers?

I am guessing the MOS might be different as I was army and you may be Navy or ...

On a similar note I just got a note from a friend in Virginia, she is quite old and feels here "skill" (though she didn't address it as such) was to hoard toilet paper. For some reason she felt it would be worth something SHTF.

Out of the mouth of ... senior citizens.

[Innkeeper]

I'm just checking your spell check, you mentioned you were an FDC Chief 13P, but I had the same MOS and it was 13E, maybe you were in a different branch, or had fat fingers?

I am guessing the MOS might be different as I was army and you may be Navy or ...

On a similar note I just got a note from a friend in Virginia, she is quite old and feels here "skill" (though she didn't address it as such) was to hoard toilet paper. For some reason she felt it would be worth something SHTF.

Out of the mouth of ... senior citizens.

13P is for MLRS, 13D is for Tube, though the word I got from my old BOC chief is they are being combined and a new MOS is being created..... what was 13E for? I know 13F is forward Observer, and 13 B is cannon ****er, 13M is the Chimps in the MLRS vehicle..... a lot of jobs have been combined over the years even, my 11H is now 11B with a Hvy Weapons designation. The only to 11 series left is 11B and 11C. The army is changing rapidly.

Nope 21 years army, Navy designations are all different.

[Montana Rancher]

13P is for MLRS, 13D is for Tube, though the word I got from my old BOC chief is they are being combined and a new MOS is being created..... what was 13E for? I know 13F is forward Observer, and 13 B is cannon ****er, 13M is the Chimps in the MLRS vehicle..... a lot of jobs have been combined over the years even, my 11H is now 11B with a Hvy Weapons designation. The only to 11 series left is 11B and 11C. The army is changing rapidly.

Nope 21 years army, Navy designations are all different.

Thanks for the update, as I joined in 1979 and got out in 1991 I haven't kept up on the changes (what is that 25 years ago, sucks to get old)

13E in my day was FDC in a 155mm SP field artillery unit

Its kind of a funny story as when I joined and scored high on the test (asfab? I can't remember) the recruiter asked me if I had any computer experience, which in 1979 ment DOS, to which I said "hell yea"

So they put me in FDC and for several years we ran FADAC which stood for Field Artillery Digital Automatic Computer.

The CPU was a 80 pound monster with about 30 buttons on the face that you input the data into, powered by a 5KW generator, but put out very reliable data as shooting 155mm howitzers isn't rocket science.

About 6 years later we replaced the old FADAC with a Hewlett Packard hand held calculator called "BUCS" which was the Back Up Computer System for .... dang can't remember.. thinking ... crap I never actually used it as I was NG at that time.

Anyway, I'm happy to know there are a lot more 13ish MOS's out there, thanks for the update, when I was in MRLS was pretty new.

[jeff70]

I can hunt, garden, and Have been a heavy diesel mechanic for 25 years, I can figure out and fix most things

[Sparkyprep]

Well, now I know I can build a complete septic system!

[Txwheels]

How can you tell if the poop is broken?


There'll be 2 jagged edge turds..

[Txwheels]

I can make most any engine run and take care of whatever repairs are needed on our home or a shelter.
My main skills though would be my training and experience with edged weapons and firearms.

[OSFG]

I have my soldier skills and tracking...but mainly I'm a tinkerer for new ideas...I will make something that will solve the problem, but I will take it to others to make it better and more reliable. Ingenuity...thats the word..I have that...but not so much the required skills to make it last months or years unless it's out of wood. I'm decent at making things with wood. Not so much with metal. I can also do plumbing and Electrical stuff. Not good at growing stuff. Good at playing guitar...not so much singing. I can fix carburetor engines ...but these new computerized, fuel injected things baffle me. I'm good at taking initiative and not having to be told what to do. I'm good at taking command and making decisions and I'm not afraid of assuming responsibility.

[Infidel]

I have my soldier skills and tracking...but mainly I'm a tinkerer for new ideas...I will make something that will solve the problem, but I will take it to others to make it better and more reliable. Ingenuity...thats the word..I have that...but not so much the required skills to make it last months or years unless it's out of wood. I'm decent at making things with wood. Not so much with metal. I can also do plumbing and Electrical stuff. Not good at growing stuff. Good at playing guitar...not so much singing. I can fix carburetor engines ...but these new computerized, fuel injected things baffle me. I'm good at taking initiative and not having to be told what to do. I'm good at taking command and making decisions and I'm not afraid of assuming responsibility.

I have the feeling that once the SHTF this is going to be a very valuable skill. It's one I pride myself on also as most people won't do it. I'm also not afraid to take responsibility for something when I screw up.

-Infidel

[Dwight55]

If I can get the fire started in the wood stove, . . . I'll carry in a bucket of water, . . . put the dipper beside it, . . . church will start at 10:30.

I'll bring a 40 year old guitar that I can't play, . . . but I can beat it into submission, . . .

I only know three songs by heart: page 120, Victory in Jesus, . . . page 57, Amazing Grace, . . . and page 333, I'll fly away. Those will do till we can scrounge up some song books.

And I promise if I don't get you out of the building by 12:00 PM, . . . I will by 12:00 AM.

We'll start out with prayer requests, . . . of which I figure there will be more than just a few.

May God bless,
Dwight

[Inor]

Like OSFG, I am a tinker. I am okay with metalwork and a pretty good woodworker.

I will just add one skill to Dwight that he failed to mention. He is a master leatherman! I have a cowboy rig he made for me and it is absolutely gorgeous and very functional (if I ever need to get into a cowboy gunfight that is).

974

[A J]

Growing up poor on a farm/ranch, being able to fix just about anything with a screwdriver/hammer/pliers/welder and a bit of baling wire,
-- rifleman, archer, trapper, hunter, horseman, butcher, handyman, Ham Radio/Antenna builder, plumbing, building, masonry, fishing ...

But beyond all the crap that I've done over the years My biggest strength is why I've been nicknamed "Idea Man" by my friends/colleagues. I'm an incurable lateral thinker, I have to really work at thinking inside the box. Sometimes it gets me in trouble, but having a knack for solving problems in unique ways has always stood me in good stead.

AJ

[Montana Rancher]

I was trying to post a really relevant picture for a post but it seems the size at 115kb (shrunk down several times) is still 3k too large

I have heard about a rare technology that takes a picture of any size and "resizes" it to fit the content of the web site, I think it was introduced in about 2004

This is the most unfriendly site for putting up pictures, I hope there is a reason, I've mentioned this before.

Now I don't care about posting it.

[OSFG]

If I can get the fire started in the wood stove, . . . I'll carry in a bucket of water, . . . put the dipper beside it, . . . church will start at 10:30.

I'll bring a 40 year old guitar that I can't play, . . . but I can beat it into submission, . . .

I only know three songs by heart: page 120, Victory in Jesus, . . . page 57, Amazing Grace, . . . and page 333, I'll fly away. Those will do till we can scrounge up some song books.

And I promise if I don't get you out of the building by 12:00 PM, . . . I will by 12:00 AM.

We'll start out with prayer requests, . . . of which I figure there will be more than just a few.

May God bless,
Dwight

Well Dwight, I can play two of the three so we could at least make it work...and How much would one of those holster rigs run me...That thing was beautiful. I'd even give you complete artistic freedom. You have the gift and the eye for it.

osfg

[Inor]

Well Dwight, I can play two of the three so we could at least make it work...and How much would one of those holster rigs run me...That thing was beautiful. I'd even give you complete artistic freedom. You have the gift and the eye for it.

osfg

You will NOT be disappointed buddy.

[Infidel]

Like OSFG, I am a tinker. I am okay with metalwork and a pretty good woodworker.

I will just add one skill to Dwight that he failed to mention. He is a master leatherman! I have a cowboy rig he made for me and it is absolutely gorgeous and very functional (if I ever need to get into a cowboy gunfight that is).

974

You are correct sir, that's a beautiful piece of work. He makes me look like a hack, some day my work might be 1/2 that good if I work really hard at it.

-Infidel

[OldCrow]

My job is to fix things, I am pretty good at it.

[Inor]

You are correct sir, that's a beautiful piece of work. He makes me look like a hack, some day my work might be 1/2 that good if I work really hard at it.

-Infidel

I don't know... The photos of your work are pretty impressive too.

[Infidel]

I don't know... The photos of your work are pretty impressive too.

Thanks Inor, I appreciate that. My stuff has improved quite a bit but Dwight's work is light years beyond mine. I imagine he's been doing it a while based on that rig of yours. I'm about 8 months into my leather working career and still learning every day. I will say that Dwight is quite the gentleman and offered to share his notes for pancake holsters with me over at PF. I appreciated that quite a bit as it made things so much easier than trying to figure it out on my own.

-Infidel

[Inor]

I will say that Dwight is quite the gentleman and offered to share his notes for pancake holsters with me over at PF. I appreciated that quite a bit as it made things so much easier than trying to figure it out on my own.

-Infidel

Dwight is the most decent guy there is pal!

[rice paddy daddy]

My entire career has been in trucking and logistics.
But I've always been a po' boy, so along the way I've learned to make things with wood, from barns to tables; I've learned plumbing; auto repair from stem to stern; how to grow vegetables and raise chickens.
My time in the Army was long ago, but I still remember the basics. Such as punji traps work.
The only thing I'm hesitant to do is electrical wiring. It darn near killed me back in '89, I pay to have it done today.

[Jeep]

Security definitely, but mule, kitchen expertise, carpenter, animal wrangler would sum me up

[Sparkyprep]

My entire career has been in trucking and logistics.
But I've always been a po' boy, so along the way I've learned to make things with wood, from barns to tables; I've learned plumbing; auto repair from stem to stern; how to grow vegetables and raise chickens.
My time in the Army was long ago, but I still remember the basics. Such as punji traps work.
The only thing I'm hesitant to do is electrical wiring. It darn near killed me back in '89, I pay to have it done today.

Chicken......