Home protection, rethought.

[RWalls]

I put this thread in general discussions of survival as this is mostly about home defense, if its in the wrong place, mods feel free to move it to a more appropriate location!! :fanculo:

I know theres always different angles to approach this, but lets say you are sleeping and you hear your window breaking or your door getting kicked in. obviously this is some scum bag who wants to rob you and hurt your family. This is during normal times, not SHTF or during times like out in Missouri with the peaceful protestors (robbers/looters) trying to escape the irrational police.

A little about my setup, I have a Glock 19 bedside but I am not sure it would be my first choice. The 9mm with +P JHP ammo tends to be a great penetrator with the velocity and the last thing I want to do is shoot through the heathen, also I may be required to use multiple rounds in order to stop him. I use to keep an AR15 under the bed with a 20 round PMAG full of Hornady 77 grain TAP which are great for close in head shots for deer control but I started to think that I would blow out my eardrums inside my house and suffer permanent hearing loss, which would be a bad trade off for having to dispatch said bad guy.

I do have a .45 acp Glock 21 I could use but I keep it locked up in my safe. Also I have a semi auto 12 gauge and a pump action 12 gauge, the reliability of the semi auto is not 100% maybe more like 95% which, in my mind, IS NOT good enough. The pump action is fine as far as functionality, but with the 18.5" barrel and the full length butt stock is a pain to maneuver. I did just finish building a 300 BLK pistol and could use 220 grain subsonics.

I also have a Tomahawk under my bed, I would hate to get hit with that thing! No worry of hearing loss. I have also thought about getting a short sword after I read about the college kid killing an intruder with his samara sword in one swing. Swinging a sword in the hallway may not be the best.

I always wonder what everyone else uses for home protection.

[Sockpuppet]

Nothing puckers the anal sphincter more than the sound of the pump action of a shotgun being racked. The very sound may be all you need to deter the scumbag criminal........and its awfully hard to miss with it as well, and the range isn't that of a rifle or handgun round.

The above leads to the round to be utilized for such. From the Firearms Tactical Institute:


"Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body."

Secondly, regarding the use of a handgun: A handgun is almost always a secondary or backup weapon. When navigating tight spaces, or while attempting to obtain access to one's longarm, it certainly appropriate. One's first weapon of choice, barring special circumstances as mentioned, should be a longarm.

With that stated: I understand the argument for overpenetration, but multiple rounds required with a smaller round, also increases the chances of missing the perp altogether. Your worry at that point isn't the overpenetration, but rather where that stray round is going to land. The idea is to stop the threat as fast as one can, which generally means with the biggest and deepest hole one can put into the threat.

A rifle round is certainly an effective means to dispatch the threat, but certainly not my own first choice for a variety of reasons.

Lastly, hand to hand combat it the very last method to arrest the threat, and unless you are skilled at throwing such, the Tomahawk isn't ideal for such use.

[dsdmmat]

The potential of being over run in your house is always present these days. 10 scumbags coming through your house from different entry points is a nightmare and it takes a lot to be prepared for that.

No one weapon system is going to be able to defeat this type of attack.

The first line of defense is always going to be to prevent the initial entry.
Strong doors, strong windows, fences and guard dogs will make you a hard target but will also make a gang think you have something valuable that you are protecting inside.

The balance is going to be to strengthen your defenses without looking like you are trying to protect Sometihng valuable.
There are many things you can do some will increase your property value and please your neighbors others will do the opposite.
Sticker or thorn bushes all around the house isn't going to increase your net worth profile but it will give a level of protection from thugs wanting to gain entry. Not painting your house or residing it will also not make your house any more valuable but it will decrease your profile.
Unfortunately most of us have a family member who wants the house to be the best looking one on the block so that raises our profile to the scum bags out there.
Barred doors
Reinforced windows and security lights with a good fence may be what you have to do if your in a situation where keeping up appearances is required in your house or neighborhood.

[Inor]

In our bedroom, I keep a Ruger GP100 (6 inch) loaded with .38 JHP (maybe Hornady? I do not remember). Mrs Inor keeps her S&W Shield (9mm) also loaded with Hornady JHP. In addition, we have a Remington 870 behind the closet door loaded with #4 shot. It is probably not 100% lethal, but it will ruin their day.

Beyond that, as long as our grandson is not staying with us, we keep several other surprises hidden throughout the house: Beretta 92FS in my office, a S&W model 36 in a drawer in the kitchen, etc.

Personally, I would avoid using a rifle round in the house if I possibly can. Between the over penetration and the noise, I just do not think that would be a good thing. That being said, I do keep 3 20 round mags of 5.56 loaded as an absolute last resort.

[Peacekeeper]

I keep a loaded wife in my bedroom with me, best defense yet I have found!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN_qSmG1h18

[Txwheels]

100 lb pup sleeps at the foot of the bed, Mossberg 500 with 00buck beside the headboard and a 1911 on the headboard. During the daytime hours the 1911 is on my hip.

[jeff70]

mt first line of defense is the 65 pound lab/pit mix at the foot of my bed, who HATES people in her house. then we move to either the shield 9mm or .357mag snubnose. both are on the nightstand next to my bed. if the grandkids are here same rules apply only I close the door to the pistol safe.

[Slippy]

If they get past my MURS Long Range Driveway alert system, our three dogs will take up their job as our secondary early warning system. There is a Winchester 1300 with 12 rounds Aguila mini shells alternating Buckshot and Slugs under my side of the bed, a .45 acp S&W M&P with Hornady Critical Defense Rounds with light in small GunVault safe behind nightstand. Mrs Slippy has her 5 shot .38 sp in her nightstand. If for some reason we have to retreat to the closet or master bath, we have a built in wall cavity able to hide two people and waiting for us is an AR 15 with multiple 30 rd mags. As a last resort in the wall cavity, I've put a .410 single shot and a box of 3 inch shells... just in case.

Each room has a mini GunVault safe with a handgun and next to my chair in the den is a S&W 9mm with 17 rounds Hornady Critical Defense affixed under the lamp table in a BlackHawk Serpa holster. Laundry room has a Mossberg 88 in the pantry closet loaded with buckshot and an Uncle Mikes Sleeve with an extra 5 rounds.

We sleep well at night.

[1moretoy]

I put this thread in general discussions of survival as this is mostly about home defense, if its in the wrong place, mods feel free to move it to a more appropriate location!! :fanculo:

I know theres always different angles to approach this, but lets say you are sleeping and you hear your window breaking or your door getting kicked in. obviously this is some scum bag who wants to rob you and hurt your family. This is during normal times, not SHTF or during times like out in Missouri with the peaceful protestors (robbers/looters) trying to escape the irrational police.

A little about my setup, I have a Glock 19 bedside but I am not sure it would be my first choice. The 9mm with +P JHP ammo tends to be a great penetrator with the velocity and the last thing I want to do is shoot through the heathen, also I may be required to use multiple rounds in order to stop him. I use to keep an AR15 under the bed with a 20 round PMAG full of Hornady 77 grain TAP which are great for close in head shots for deer control but I started to think that I would blow out my eardrums inside my house and suffer permanent hearing loss, which would be a bad trade off for having to dispatch said bad guy.

I do have a .45 acp Glock 21 I could use but I keep it locked up in my safe. Also I have a semi auto 12 gauge and a pump action 12 gauge, the reliability of the semi auto is not 100% maybe more like 95% which, in my mind, IS NOT good enough. The pump action is fine as far as functionality, but with the 18.5" barrel and the full length butt stock is a pain to maneuver. I did just finish building a 300 BLK pistol and could use 220 grain subsonics.

I also have a Tomahawk under my bed, I would hate to get hit with that thing! No worry of hearing loss. I have also thought about getting a short sword after I read about the college kid killing an intruder with his samara sword in one swing. Swinging a sword in the hallway may not be the best.

I always wonder what everyone else uses for home protection.

Hell, Looks like you've got everything covered except maybe grenades.
Oh I'm gonna move the thread just because :mocking::explodingbomb:

[Infidel]

I used to keep a loaded 20ga pump gun upstairs in the bedroom. Once the boys got old enough to climb stairs I decided that was not going to do. I haven't come up with a suitable replacement for it yet but a 1911 or a revolver in .45 Colt would suit me fine to fight my way to a long gun if necessary. It's not that I don't have the options, I just need to come up with a suitable way of securing them so that children's fingers won't be able to get to them. Cost is the biggest hurdle for me since every dime is accounted for in our budget and any extra goes to paying off debt so I can be debt free when I retire. I figure with my current state of readiness I'm playing the odds and they get worse every day, I really need to remedy the situation. Thanks for reminding me.

-Infidel

[OldCrow]

In my opinion, the best home defense weapon is a pump shotgun, But that is not what I have handy. I have a 1911 45 ACP within reach if time is short and I need to lay hands on a weapon quick as I can. If I do have some time, I'll stick the pistol in my pocket, and grab the old 12 gauge.

[RWalls]

mt first line of defense is the 65 pound lab/pit mix at the foot of my bed, who HATES people in her house.

My lab/boxer mix sounds ferocious but once you get in she will pee everywhere when you start petting her!

[MrsInor]

Inor forgot to mention the three dogs. Cumulative poundage is over two hundred forty pounds(and growing). I feel quite comfortable at home when he is traveling.

[rice paddy daddy]

Dadgum!! Y'all must live in some rough neighborhoods.
But, that said, I have always slept with a loaded gun of some type nearby since getting out of the service.
We live in a very quiet rural area, our 4 dogs are inside at night and would alert on any humans within 100 feet of the house. The horses don't like strangers either and the wife (with her super sharp hearing) can tell when they are nervous.
I mean real quiet around here, about the only noise at night would be the occasional car or the train horn at the crossing 2 miles away.
I do keep a S&W revolver (38 Special) on the nightstand, and since the most realistic intrusion scenario would be something after my livestock there is a 20 ga SXS double barrel leaning up in the corner along with the Mini 14.

The Lord led us here from the big city for a reason. I'm not quite sure why, but given the nature of society today, I'm thankful He did.

[DerBiermeister]

I keep my Mossy 590(SP) in the br, soon to be hanging on bed mounted rails. 8+1 with first three #4buck, followed by six 00buck.

978

And mounted to my bed frame (up toward the headboard) is a speed vault containing my M&P 9 FS (17+1) 124 gr Hydra-shok JHP. 2 spare mags in bedstand.

979

Someone mentioned ear damage. Yeah -- I worry about that too. I've had relatively minor tinnitus for some 30 years. But worry that one blast from either the shotgun or the pistol -- with no ear protection -- would cause a lot of ear damage. But who is going to don a pair of ear muffs at 3AM in the morning?

I too have my two pooches (black lab and Golden ret.) that sleep in the bedroom and will wake up the dead at the sound of a church mouse.

[rice paddy daddy]

I did time in the Field Artillery. But what put my hearing over the edge was 5.56 NATO ammo. And that was in an open environment.

[Baglady]

Hubby has his S&W .38 in his bedside drawer, and I've got my .410 on my side of the bed.
This time of the year his Hound, Bobbie, sleeps inside. Luke is outside.
Hubbies new pup, Rascal, is in a pen, but seems like he's going to be an all around good dog.
We consider the dogs our "1st Alert".
The grandkids are not allowed in our room. Period.

[Jeep]

Me, a bull mastiff and a Beretta 92fs

[SquirrelBait]

The mutts, A pump action 12 gauge, And an irate squirrel.

[machinejjh]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/23/1711a81a89c66f9cbfe0d599c8acda49.jpg

[Arklatex]

I keep a handgun with a light on the nightstand and a 12 gauge pump behind the bedroom door. I also have a 30-30 by the front door.

[Arklatex]

I wouldn't want to get poked by that mossberg of beer man's!

[DerBiermeister]

I wouldn't want to get poked by that mossberg of beer man's!

Yeah -- that is an Ontario 8" blade, made for the Marines. OKC3S
On other bayonets, like the M9 or M7, I've read complaints about the lack of sharpness. Not on this baby. Honestly, you could shave with it. The swedge is equally sharpened.

[James m]

I purchased a Leapord 2 used from a Mercedes dealership. Its really nice, the leather seats are ripped because it's an older model. But hey its turbo diesel powered, and I feel really safe in this particular model. But you wouldn't believe the price the local gun store wants for ammunition. Almost as bad as .22lr

[Coppertop]

There is a Judge (.410 handgun) loaded with defense rounds (the kind with 3 or 4 slugs surrounded by pellets) sitting next to the bed. Beside that is a 9mm and the wife has a .45 on her nightstand. I don't keep long guns loaded in the house but the ammo is right next to the shotgun. I don't really think using one of my hi power hunting rifles is a good idea in town as we are surrounded on 3 sides by houses with little people in them.

I think that having a plan of action is just as effective as what gun you use. Our plan is for me to investigate with the judge in hand and her to be calling the sheriff. If I need to fire the gun I will be working my way back towards our safe room. She will come forward far enough to cover me from a predetermined spot and we will retreat together. When we reach the safe room she will load the shotguns and we can defend ourselves from there until help arrives. 5-8 min tops.

I hope to be able to stop the threat with one or two rounds - retreat and allow the sheriff to clean up. If there are more than one assailant I hope the first round scares them off, If it is a determined group- I hope that the shooting slows them down as I make a covered tactical retreat to a defensible place.

Thanks

[1moretoy]

I have things strategically placed around the house. I should be 2-3 seconds away from something at any given time...even the head.

[Sparkyprep]

1moretoy, that is the CREEPIEST avatar I have ever seen

[1moretoy]

Teehee

[Bigdogbuc]

For those that are concerned about hearing loss because you've discharged a firearm in a home, if you're dead, you won't hear anything at all. Ever again. But there is this; http://www.emich.edu/cerns/downloads/papers/PoliceStaff/Shift%20Work,%20%20Stress,%20%20Wellness/Survival%20Stress%20in%20Law%20Enforcement.pdf

Hopefully the link will work. Somewhere around pg. 9, it talks about Auditory Exclusion under stress. It does not however address whether there is damage to the hearing, despite "not being able to hear". I found one article that stated all the "hearing parts work normally", however, your Sympathetic Nervous System takes over.

I have talked to officers involved in shootings and many stated that they did not "hear" their gun firing. A good friend of mine was involved in an inside shoot in a living room during an arrest and he fired several rounds from his .45 (the suspect bled out) and he suffered no temporary or long term hearing damage. He also did not hear his shots.

Basically, they were scared fecesless at the time of the shooting.

[Jeep]

Yeah not worried about my ears so much

[BucketBack]

Since I don't have an EDC,whatever pistol I'm carrying that day goes on headboard. Then a 20 youth 870 behind the door. P3AT in the sock drawer,Bowie Knife for close quarters. Circular Saw blades for tossing down the hall. My version of throwing stars.

Ruger Security Six on the other side of the bed, AR 556 pistol with STD on muzzle,it throws the blast and fire forwards. Not bad on the hearing.

Then the safe door is open with the other items....

[hawgrider]

Since I don't have an EDC,whatever pistol I'm carrying that day goes on headboard. Then a 20 youth 870 behind the door. P3AT in the sock drawer,Bowie Knife for close quarters. Circular Saw blades for tossing down the hall. My version of throwing stars.

Ruger Security Six on the other side of the bed, AR 556 pistol with STD on muzzle,it throws the blast and fire forwards. Not bad on the hearing.

Then the safe door is open with the other items....





All I need is my single action colt.


http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q761/hawgrider97/893fbb0ae332_zpsiunhlrmo.gif (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/hawgrider97/media/893fbb0ae332_zpsiunhlrmo.gif.html)

[BucketBack]

"I'll be your Huckleberry" he said

[hawgrider]

"I'll be your Huckleberry"
Haha love that line!

[DerBiermeister]

Haha love that line!


One of the worst decisions in Hollywood history -- if ever there was an Oscar performance, that was it.

[hawgrider]

One of the worst decisions in Hollywood history -- if ever there was an Oscar performance, that was it.No surprise there from hollyweird. That is one of the few of my all-time favorite flicks!

[Coppertop]

For those that are concerned about hearing loss because you've discharged a firearm in a home, if you're dead, you won't hear anything at all. Ever again. But there is this; http://www.emich.edu/cerns/downloads/papers/PoliceStaff/Shift%20Work,%20%20Stress,%20%20Wellness/Survival%20Stress%20in%20Law%20Enforcement.pdf

Hopefully the link will work. Somewhere around pg. 9, it talks about Auditory Exclusion under stress. It does not however address whether there is damage to the hearing, despite "not being able to hear". I found one article that stated all the "hearing parts work normally", however, your Sympathetic Nervous System takes over.

I have talked to officers involved in shootings and many stated that they did not "hear" their gun firing. A good friend of mine was involved in an inside shoot in a living room during an arrest and he fired several rounds from his .45 (the suspect bled out) and he suffered no temporary or long term hearing damage. He also did not hear his shots.

Basically, they were scared fecesless at the time of the shooting.

This is something the GF and I have talked about in a different context. When we go sight in our hunting rifles, we can tell our hearing is affected for a while, even with protection, and we have sore shoulders within a few shots. Not enough of either to hurt, but it's noticeable. When we go hunting we never hear the gun nor do we feel the recoil, and that is after a day of bird hunting. I always thought it was quite interesting how that worked.

Thanks

[Montana Rancher]

The potential of being over run in your house is always present these days. 10 scumbags coming through your house from different entry points is a nightmare and it takes a lot to be prepared for that.

No one weapon system is going to be able to defeat this type of attack.

The first line of defense is always going to be to prevent the initial entry.
Strong doors, strong windows, fences and guard dogs will make you a hard target but will also make a gang think you have something valuable that you are protecting inside.

The balance is going to be to strengthen your defenses without looking like you are trying to protect Sometihng valuable.
There are many things you can do some will increase your property value and please your neighbors others will do the opposite.
Sticker or thorn bushes all around the house isn't going to increase your net worth profile but it will give a level of protection from thugs wanting to gain entry. Not painting your house or residing it will also not make your house any more valuable but it will decrease your profile.
Unfortunately most of us have a family member who wants the house to be the best looking one on the block so that raises our profile to the scum bags out there.
Barred doors
Reinforced windows and security lights with a good fence may be what you have to do if your in a situation where keeping up appearances is required in your house or neighborhood.


I put this thread in general discussions of survival as this is mostly about home defense, if its in the wrong place, mods feel free to move it to a more appropriate location!! :fanculo:

I know theres always different angles to approach this, but lets say you are sleeping and you hear your window breaking or your door getting kicked in. obviously this is some scum bag who wants to rob you and hurt your family. This is during normal times, not SHTF or during times like out in Missouri with the peaceful protestors (robbers/looters) trying to escape the irrational police.

A little about my setup, I have a Glock 19 bedside but I am not sure it would be my first choice. The 9mm with +P JHP ammo tends to be a great penetrator with the velocity and the last thing I want to do is shoot through the heathen, also I may be required to use multiple rounds in order to stop him. I use to keep an AR15 under the bed with a 20 round PMAG full of Hornady 77 grain TAP which are great for close in head shots for deer control but I started to think that I would blow out my eardrums inside my house and suffer permanent hearing loss, which would be a bad trade off for having to dispatch said bad guy.

I do have a .45 acp Glock 21 I could use but I keep it locked up in my safe. Also I have a semi auto 12 gauge and a pump action 12 gauge, the reliability of the semi auto is not 100% maybe more like 95% which, in my mind, IS NOT good enough. The pump action is fine as far as functionality, but with the 18.5" barrel and the full length butt stock is a pain to maneuver. I did just finish building a 300 BLK pistol and could use 220 grain subsonics.

I also have a Tomahawk under my bed, I would hate to get hit with that thing! No worry of hearing loss. I have also thought about getting a short sword after I read about the college kid killing an intruder with his samara sword in one swing. Swinging a sword in the hallway may not be the best.

I always wonder what everyone else uses for home protection.

Great post as you are thinking about busting your ear drums shooting inside a enclosed space which few consider.

My home defense is based totally upon 12 ga. pumps with 00 Buck, I keep a pair of ear muffs (the kind with electronic sound suppression) next to every shotgun.

After the first shot when the bad guys are shaking their heads from the sound concussion, I will not only hear what they are saying but know where they are.

It is a force multiplier beyond belief unless you have shot a gun in a house.

[Jeep]

Why is everyone worried about the ears ?

[James m]

Danm if I know. I'd be more worried about getting shot.

[Jeep]

I been on the receiving end of heavy stuff, my last concern is what I hear

[DerBiermeister]

Why is everyone worried about the ears ?

Not terribly concerned -- not to the point where it would prevent me from blasting the bastards away. But -- I have had a mild to moderate case of tinnitus for about 30+ years. I try to protect my ears from really loud stuff (anything over 90dB). As a teen and young man, I damaged my ears from too many gunshots without using ear protection. You can never undo it, only will get worse with more exposure to loud noise.

[Txwheels]

Auditory exclusion under stress is real. It works right along with what's called the 'tachy psych effect'.

Tachy Psych is that feeling of everything going in slow motion when under extreme stress such as in a survival situation.