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BucketBack
07-27-2021, 11:55 AM
asses radical reforms banning less lethal weapon options
July 26, 2021
Law OfficerbyLaw Officer
Share and speak up for justice, law & order...


Rarely does anything good happen when politicians get involved in sound law enforcement practices and the state of Washington is about to experience a level of crime that they have never had in the past. For now, the radical police reform law, recently passed by Governor Jay Inslee (D) is causing massive confusion for its vagueness and lack of details within law enforcement agencies across the state.

The new police reform laws, which took effect on Sunday and prompted by the death of George Floyd, has sent law enforcement scrambling to decide what they can and cannot do.

Kent Chief Rafael Padilla said that “When you take the legislation and apply it, that’s when you really learn how effective it’s going to be. The challenge is — I’m going to be very frank — the laws were written very poorly, and the combination of them all at the same time has led to there being conflicts in clarity and in what was intended versus what was written.”

We can’t begin to tell you how dangerous the law is, but officers can no longer use any level of force, including handcuffing, until they have probable cause for a crime. When probable cause is observed, officers must first de-escalate before using force. That means that suspicious behavior and even pre-attack indicators prior to an actual assault or attempted murder on a police officer, cannot be dealt with in a safe manner. That would typically mean handcuffing someone or even grabbing their arm if they refuse to take their hands out of their pockets or reach into a car is off limits.

Now, with any type of force possible after “reasonable suspicion” and cops threatened with prison for doing what every federal court in the country says is legal, cops will have to see potentially dangerous behavior but wait until the higher level of “probable cause” of a crime is observed to begin de-escalation long before they can protect themselves.

None of this complies with any case law passed in the last three decades.

The Executive Director of the Washington Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs, Steve Strachan, said in a statement that “we owe it to the public we serve to be candid and share that we are deeply concerned that some policing reforms may have unintended outcomes that result in increased levels of confusion, frustration, victimization, and increased crime within our communities.”

Those “unintended consequences” have already begun as many chiefs will be forced to no longer respond to any incident that does not detail an actual crime such as suicidal subjects, check the well-being and mental health calls simply to protect their officers from criminal or civil punishment.

The reform also places a restriction on military grade weaponry that would inadvertently ban some less-lethal impact weapons, including the shotguns police use to fire beanbag rounds. The Spokane Police Department and the King County Sheriff’s Department have already turned their less lethal weapons in because of the reform.

Ultimately, the unintended consequences and this ridiculous assault on law enforcement will do three things.

It will drive cops out of the state.

It will hurt and kill more cops.

Crime and violence will peak, killing and hurting more citizens in the state of Washington.

Cops are already fleeing. Seattle has lost hundreds in the last year and the Kent Police Department has lost close to a third of their officers. Many officers throughout the state have taken jobs in Montana and Idaho where we assume they have heard of the United States Supreme Court and there will be more to come.



Speak up for justice, law & order


https://www.lawofficer.com/washington-state-police-reform/

Sarge7402
07-27-2021, 12:51 PM
It's got to be great to have the inmates running the asylum. Thought working in prison was a lot of fun!. At least there we had pepper spray and could use cuffs to restrain a rambunksious individual.

Now as a Contract Court Security Officer for the USMS we have cuffs and a hand gun. No OC, no baton, no TASER so it's hands on to deadly force and nothing in between.

Definitely know how the Washington Police Chiefs fell

juskom95
07-27-2021, 12:53 PM
This is the same kind of PC/SJW crap they did to us in Baghdad with ROE/RUF.

Kusa
07-28-2021, 06:11 PM
The state and local cops will quit and Joe will send in federal cops. That’s the plan.

Mad Trapper
07-28-2021, 06:39 PM
Just go back to riot guns an OO buck.

MountainGirl
07-29-2021, 01:03 PM
There was a segment on local tv here (Spokane area) of a meeting of all first responders. All the LEOs of different jurisdictions (city, county, etc) were standing together, and the Spokane PD Chief was in front of them addressing the fire, ambulance, rescue, etc (mental health workers?) people in the room. Here's what he said to them: (paraphrased)

"I want to apologize to you. Now, under the new rules, whenever we're dispatched to any disturbance, domestic assault or otherwise, where there might be injuries and you are responding too, you will have to go in first. We have to remain in the background until you are assaulted."

So fkd up. Many not happy people here.

juskom95
07-29-2021, 01:38 PM
So fkd up. Many not happy people here.

You know, %75 of the social workers (CPS etc) I've met are not just Left, but HARD LEFT so its hard to have sympathy for them.

They are getting exactly what they asked for, just not what they wanted.

SGG
07-29-2021, 02:00 PM
Fuk the rules... should not follow


Can't wake the banned. :pirateflag:

MountainGirl
07-29-2021, 03:14 PM
You know, %75 of the social workers (CPS etc) I've met are not just Left, but HARD LEFT so its hard to have sympathy for them.

They are getting exactly what they asked for, just not what they wanted.

Agree totally re the social workers.

It's the fire, rescue, ambulance personnel I feel for. Other than in Spokane - a lot of the responders up here are volunteer. The LE doesn't like this at all.

juskom95
07-29-2021, 04:03 PM
Agree totally re the social workers.

It's the fire, rescue, ambulance personnel I feel for. Other than in Spokane - a lot of the responders up here are volunteer. The LE doesn't like this at all.

They should have quit a long time ago honestly. This isn't something that happened overnight, many out there (myself included) were warning about this and have been for years.

They don't like it, they need to move. If they won't because of family . . . . well, just like in my situation, its my mess in my city/state, we have to deal with it on our own.

MountainGirl
07-29-2021, 04:18 PM
They should have quit a long time ago honestly. This isn't something that happened overnight, many out there (myself included) were warning about this and have been for years.

They don't like it, they need to move. If they won't because of family . . . . well, just like in my situation, its my mess in my city/state, we have to deal with it on our own.

Methods vary. You found yours; they're finding theirs.

juskom95
07-29-2021, 04:50 PM
Methods vary. You found yours; they're finding theirs.

That's my point, they are "Going along to get along," which never turns out good. These individuals have been in a position for at least two decades to stop this insanity, but they decided to "Just Follow Orders," and the like. They saw what was happening and they had choices:

Speak up
Say nothing
Leave

Sparkyprep
07-29-2021, 07:12 PM
The 9mm it is, then.....

Innkeeper
07-29-2021, 07:39 PM
Agree totally re the social workers.

It's the fire, rescue, ambulance personnel I feel for. Other than in Spokane - a lot of the responders up here are volunteer. The LE doesn't like this at all.When I still sold firearms I sold many to EMT/Para's who work in the big cities, they aren't allowed to carry, but they would rather be alive to face the consequences then dead. I wonder how many out there carry or will start to carry?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

MountainGirl
07-29-2021, 08:29 PM
That's my point, they are "Going along to get along," which never turns out good. These individuals have been in a position for at least two decades to stop this insanity, but they decided to "Just Follow Orders," and the like. They saw what was happening and they had choices:

Speak up
Say nothing
Leave

And that was your situation, your environment, your chiefs, your department.

Majority of heads of LE out here are elected (rather than politically appointed) and have already 'refused to enforce' several of WA's new laws re gun control. My guess is they won't comply with this to any degree... other than maybe allowing an social worker or two get thumped. They'll be right there with fire & rescue though, with the full support of their chiefs, until this goat-rope is rescinded at the state level - which shouldn't take long as the worst of it will happen in Seattle. <-- who's liberal mayor, btw, is already screaming for more police. Pffft.

Edit to add: If they were going to just "go along", that shocking tv news segment wouldn't have happened; the change would have just been quietly implemented... without showing the "deer in the headlights" faces of fire and emt responders.

shootbrownelk
07-29-2021, 10:22 PM
The state and local cops will quit and Joe will send in federal cops. That’s the plan.

United Nations blue helmets?

juskom95
07-30-2021, 08:55 AM
And that was your situation, your environment, your chiefs, your department.

Majority of heads of LE out here are elected (rather than politically appointed) and have already 'refused to enforce' several of WA's new laws re gun control. My guess is they won't comply with this to any degree... other than maybe allowing an social worker or two get thumped. They'll be right there with fire & rescue though, with the full support of their chiefs, until this goat-rope is rescinded at the state level - which shouldn't take long as the worst of it will happen in Seattle. <-- who's liberal mayor, btw, is already screaming for more police. Pffft.

Police are appointed, Sheriff are elected.

No one in the medical field is elected, just like the social workers etc.

They had a choice, they made it. I have ZERO sympathy for them, it is time they get to see the consequences of their inaction. This is their mess, they wouldn't stop to help me, so why should I even shed a tear for them?

They need to move or accept the rules; staying is acceptance.


Edit to add: If they were going to just "go along", that shocking tv news segment wouldn't have happened; the change would have just been quietly implemented... without showing the "deer in the headlights" faces of fire and emt responders.
Yes it would have. How often to we see pandering and press conferences by useless bureaucrats stating how upset they are, but 'their hands are tied,' and they can't do anything?

ANYONE who spent any time in government knows how screwed up and corrupt it is at ALL levels. The only way to stay in that system and achieve a leadership/management position is to ignore and support the corruption.

My sympathy is gone for LE, emergency services, social workers etc. They saw this coming for decades and didn't do anything to stand up to it, and we're supposed to feel sorry for them now!? No, not gonna happen, not after 2020. Ask yourself: How many of these LE departments turned a blind eye to the totalitarian actions of their state or supported it?

MountainGirl
07-30-2021, 05:28 PM
Police are appointed, Sheriff are elected.

No one in the medical field is elected, just like the social workers etc.

They had a choice, they made it. I have ZERO sympathy for them, it is time they get to see the consequences of their inaction. This is their mess, they wouldn't stop to help me, so why should I even shed a tear for them?

They need to move or accept the rules; staying is acceptance.


Yes it would have. How often to we see pandering and press conferences by useless bureaucrats stating how upset they are, but 'their hands are tied,' and they can't do anything?

ANYONE who spent any time in government knows how screwed up and corrupt it is at ALL levels. The only way to stay in that system and achieve a leadership/management position is to ignore and support the corruption.

My sympathy is gone for LE, emergency services, social workers etc. They saw this coming for decades and didn't do anything to stand up to it, and we're supposed to feel sorry for them now!? No, not gonna happen, not after 2020. Ask yourself: How many of these LE departments turned a blind eye to the totalitarian actions of their state or supported it?

We can disagree on this. :)
Thanks for your reply!

juskom95
08-02-2021, 10:30 AM
We can disagree on this. :)
Thanks for your reply!

I challenge you to Thunderdome!

https://i.imgur.com/1eFAsdU.gif






Just kidding!

MountainGirl
08-02-2021, 11:55 AM
I challenge you to Thunderdome!

https://i.imgur.com/1eFAsdU.gif






Just kidding!

OMG!! I was just thinking the same thing!!
I was wondering when I'd hear back from you on this... I knew it would come eventually. :D
Yeah I'll duke it out with you as long as we both agree to get amnesia when we're done - cause it wouldn't be a debate on the issue, it'd be a name calling slug fest, and I wouldn't want to lose you as a friend when we're both exhausted from it.
Your call. :kickinballs:

juskom95
08-02-2021, 12:07 PM
OMG!! I was just thinking the same thing!!
I was wondering when I'd hear back from you on this... I knew it would come eventually. :D
Yeah I'll duke it out with you as long as we both agree to get amnesia when we're done - cause it wouldn't be a debate on the issue, it'd be a name calling slug fest, and I wouldn't want to lose you as a friend when we're both exhausted from it.
Your call. :kickinballs:

Honestly, I take breaks from online for a couple or three days at a time now, and this thread slipped down on my watched ones.