Sometimes you win...

[Inor]

And sometimes you screw the pooch. This one is closer to the later than the former.

I have wanted a high-end dovetail saw since forever. But I am not willing to spend the $250-$500 to have one made for me. So I decided to make one for myself. The plate is 0.017 1095 spring steel. The tote is mesquite that I slabbed myself. The entire thing is made 100% with hand tools.

17581

And it has a horrible drift to the left. I may be able to correct it by setting the teeth. I do not have a swedge small enough to set the teeth but I did order one today. Originally, I was planning on cutting the teeth at 12 PPI but decided to go with 16 PPI to see just how thin I could get the kerf. (I should have checked the swedge I do have first.)

I cuts quickly and leaves a very smooth surface but the damn thing wants to cut in a circle! Hopefully, setting the teeth 3 or 4 thousandths will help otherwise I have nice shop trophy and learned how NOT to make a dovetail saw. The downside is, if setting the teeth does not work, I do not know what I did wrong. The plate is perfectly straight and the tote is square.

[Box of frogs]

Brother, you are way over my head in ability.
Hope you can get the drift figured out. Tell us how adjusting the teeth works for you.
BoF

[stevekozak]

Well, for what it is worth, that is a damn good-looking saw!! As BOF said above, you are way over my head in skill and technology. I hope you get it figured out. Out of curiosity, have you ever made ANY kind of saw before?

[Inor]

Well, for what it is worth, that is a damn good-looking saw!! As BOF said above, you are way over my head in skill and technology. I hope you get it figured out. Out of curiosity, have you ever made ANY kind of saw before?

Never from scratch. I have a couple old panel saws that I inherited from my grad dad that I reworked the plates on, but never a backsaw.

[Dwight55]

Too bad my step dad is not alive . . . he could have pointed you in that right direction.

I'll take a file to my saws . . sharpen them when they need it . . . but creating a saw is definitely 3 or 4 steps above my pay grade.

Good luck . . . hope you get it . . . (only said that to be friendly . . . I know you will).

May God bless,
Dwight

[Big Ken]

I gotta tell ya, as good as it looks I'd be happy just having it hang on my wall to look at! I'm sure you'll work the kinks out of it, if not PM me and I'll give you my address. :D

[red442joe]

Wow! Very nice.
Please do tell us more about this journey; very exciting!

Joe

[Slippy]

BEE-U-TI-FUL Saw!

I'd wear that thing around my neck just to show it off! :beerchug:

[Chiefster23]

Very nice work! Hope you get it figured out!

[Prepared One]

It looks great Inor! As mentioned, your skill level is way out of me league. Hope you get it worked out.

[SOCOM42]

Other than the set, it could be your filing of the teeth.

Whether you are left or right handed only one side is cut easily, it is a common problem with filing.

Take a 10X magnifier and look at each tooth for a difference in the tooth form.

You might need a filing rig to make them equal.

[T-Man 1066]

Might want to look at the face angle of the teeth. If they are not neutral, but consistently angled even a few degrees, that might account for your curve.

That being said, Awesome looking saw. Love to see examples of good craftsmanship. Not everything should be mass produced.

[Deebo]

You need more bbq...Thats the problem.
Awesome work pal.

[Inor]

Other than the set, it could be your filing of the teeth.

Whether you are left or right handed only one side is cut easily, it is a common problem with filing.

Take a 10X magnifier and look at each tooth for a difference in the tooth form.

You might need a filing rig to make them equal.

I made a little jig for the file in an attempt to get each tooth as close as possible to all the others. I think that more-or-less worked. When I look at them under a magnifying glass, it looks like possibly the teeth on the file may have been enough to set the teeth a couple degrees just filing them. (I used a brand new file and filed all the teeth from the same side of the plate and that may have been enough to bend the teeth a little.) The saw plate is only .017 thick and it is just 1095 steel so I may have misjudged its ability to withstand the filing?


Might want to look at the face angle of the teeth. If they are not neutral, but consistently angled even a few degrees, that might account for your curve.

That being said, Awesome looking saw. Love to see examples of good craftsmanship. Not everything should be mass produced.

I filed it mostly for a rip cut. For the first inch and a half (near the toe), I cut the teeth with a 20 degree rake to make it easier to start the cut. The rest of the saw is filed at 5 degree rake. I did not put any fleem angle on it. (Once I get it cutting straight, I will likely file in a small fleem angle - maybe about 5 degrees on every other tooth from opposite sides just because I hate the wood fibers hanging out the back of the cut.)

What I am going to try, while I wait for my new swedge to show up, is to VERY carefully hammer the teeth flat, then just do one quick pass on each tooth with the file to re-establish the point. I think I will also do the filing pass alternating the teeth from opposite sides of the plate so if I do push a tooth one way, the next tooth will be pushed the opposite. That should improve it some but I expect it to bind up in the cut after about 1/8 to 1/4 inch, until I get the swedge to do the set.

If it STILL does not work right after the set, then I will just file the teeth off and re-file the teeth at 11 or 12 PPI. I may be asking too much from such a thin saw plate with 2 inches between the teeth and the back.

[SOCOM42]

I made a little jig for the file in an attempt to get each tooth as close as possible to all the others. I think that more-or-less worked. When I look at them under a magnifying glass, it looks like possibly the teeth on the file may have been enough to set the teeth a couple degrees just filing them. (I used a brand new file and filed all the teeth from the same side of the plate and that may have been enough to bend the teeth a little.) The saw plate is only .017 thick and it is just 1095 steel so I may have misjudged its ability to withstand the filing?



I filed it mostly for a rip cut. For the first inch and a half (near the toe), I cut the teeth with a 20 degree rake to make it easier to start the cut. The rest of the saw is filed at 5 degree rake. I did not put any fleem angle on it. (Once I get it cutting straight, I will likely file in a small fleem angle - maybe about 5 degrees on every other tooth from opposite sides just because I hate the wood fibers hanging out the back of the cut.)

What I am going to try, while I wait for my new swedge to show up, is to VERY carefully hammer the teeth flat, then just do one quick pass on each tooth with the file to re-establish the point. I think I will also do the filing pass alternating the teeth from opposite sides of the plate so if I do push a tooth one way, the next tooth will be pushed the opposite. That should improve it some but I expect it to bind up in the cut after about 1/8 to 1/4 inch, until I get the swedge to do the set.

If it STILL does not work right after the set, then I will just file the teeth off and re-file the teeth at 11 or 12 PPI. I may be asking too much from such a thin saw plate with 2 inches between the teeth and the back.

What kind of a file are you using?

A fine Swiss pattern file might do the trick.

Is the plate hardened in any form?

[Inor]

What kind of a file are you using?

A fine Swiss pattern file might do the trick.

Is the plate hardened in any form?

It is a 7 3/4" Glardon Needle File. The ones I chose (I bought 2 of them.) are double-cut. https://www.vallorbe.com/en-ch/products/files/needle-files

They seem like pretty decent files, but it seems when they are brand new, the file is sharp enough they bend the teeth slightly.

Flattening the saw teeth with a hammer, then re-sharpening the teeth does seem to help some. I'll know more for sure when the new swedge shows up.

[SOCOM42]

It is a 7 3/4" Glardon Needle File. The ones I chose (I bought 2 of them.) are double-cut. https://www.vallorbe.com/en-ch/products/files/needle-files

They seem like pretty decent files, but it seems when they are brand new, the file is sharp enough they bend the teeth slightly.

Flattening the saw teeth with a hammer, then re-sharpening the teeth does seem to help some. I'll know more for sure when the new swedge shows up.

Those are what I was referring to, no brand in mind, I have boxes of all different styles.

They, and the diamond ones are common to my main trade, Toolmaker.

Toolmaker paid well, engineer paid me even better, but I loved to make things,

the more precise the better the feeling of accomplishment.

I could not do both wherever I worked except for Harrington and Richardson as a process engineer.

Started my own place a few years after i worked there, then the headaches arrived!

Here, If I was doing your job, I would have made the swage set.

Precision finished D-2 is a lot tougher steel untreated, I don't know if it comes that thin though.

It is a bitch to machine in any form, would not loose its edge too soon.

[T-Man 1066]

Those are what I was referring to, no brand in mind, I have boxes of all different styles.

They, and the diamond ones are common to my main trade, Toolmaker.

Toolmaker paid well, engineer paid me even better, but I loved to make things,

the more precise the better the feeling of accomplishment.

I could not do both wherever I worked except for Harrington and Richardson as a process engineer.

Started my own place a few years after i worked there, then the headaches arrived!

Here, If I was doing your job, I would have made the swage set.

Precision finished D-2 is a lot tougher steel untreated, I don't know if it comes that thin though.

It is a bitch to machine in any form, would not loose its edge too soon.

D2 is a joy to grind.. as much fun as voting demonrat!

I don't think it comes that thin...

[SOCOM42]

D2 is a joy to grind.. as much fun as voting demonrat!

I don't think it comes that thin...

Oh, I know, use to make die sets out of the stuff, even milling the stuff was a bitch,

it wore the shit out of HSS end mills.

I spent thousands of hours grinding that shit in a Moore and Hauser Jig grinder,

plus profiling die sections on a B&S surface grinder.

I don't know what is available today, I no longer do that shit, just gun repair,

remember, I an 80 years old, the guns are enough.

I still do my own auto repair, last week I HAD to take one jeep to the garage to replace a O2 sensor,

required the dropping of the front driveshaft, just no room on 34 degree ground to do it.

A week before I replaced a front rotor and caliper on the same one myself.

I just did a quick search, smallest was .0315".

[Inor]

Those are what I was referring to, no brand in mind, I have boxes of all different styles.

They, and the diamond ones are common to my main trade, Toolmaker.

Toolmaker paid well, engineer paid me even better, but I loved to make things,

the more precise the better the feeling of accomplishment.

I could not do both wherever I worked except for Harrington and Richardson as a process engineer.

Started my own place a few years after i worked there, then the headaches arrived!

Here, If I was doing your job, I would have made the swage set.

Precision finished D-2 is a lot tougher steel untreated, I don't know if it comes that thin though.

It is a bitch to machine in any form, would not loose its edge too soon.

I wanted steel that is fairly soft (this has a hardness of 48-52 according to the manufacturer) because I was planning on using the same steel for making a pair of sash saws as well. I want to be able to change the configuration of the teeth on the sash saws depending on what I am cutting with them for each project. I will still use 1095 for the sash saws but I am definitely going to have to go with a thicker plate. Something around 0.025 or even 0.031.

After farting around with it today, I am convinced that I just tried to go too thin with the saw plate. I am confident that I will eventually get it right, but damn...

[SOCOM42]

I wanted steel that is fairly soft (this has a hardness of 48-52 according to the manufacturer) because I was planning on using the same steel for making a pair of sash saws as well. I want to be able to change the configuration of the teeth on the sash saws depending on what I am cutting with them for each project. I will still use 1095 for the sash saws but I am definitely going to have to go with a thicker plate. Something around 0.025 or even 0.031.

After farting around with it today, I am convinced that I just tried to go too thin with the saw plate. I am confident that I will eventually get it right, but damn...

Try and see if Simons Saw Co. still sells steel.

They had the finest fine grained steel for making saw blades, it was even hardened to the right Rockwell for saws.

I use to buy from them all sorts of tool steels.

I have a two man crosscut saw made by them about 90 years ago,

looks brand new (sold to me as NOS) cuts like hell though butter.

A leg would be of in half the saw length.

That saw is for when the gasoline runs out for the chain saws. Bought it about 30 years ago.

[T-Man 1066]

Oh, I know, use to make die sets out of the stuff, even milling the stuff was a bitch,

it wore the shit out of HSS end mills.

I spent thousands of hours grinding that shit in a Moore and Hauser Jig grinder,

plus profiling die sections on a B&S surface grinder.

I don't know what is available today, I no longer do that shit, just gun repair,

remember, I an 80 years old, the guns are enough.

I still do my own auto repair, last week I HAD to take one jeep to the garage to replace a O2 sensor,

required the dropping of the front driveshaft, just no room on 34 degree ground to do it.

A week before I replaced a front rotor and caliper on the same one myself.

I just did a quick search, smallest was .0315".

D2 is a steel that you learned quickly not to leave excess grind stock... and agreed, it preformed very well in the correct application, but machining and grinding was less than favorable to say the least.

[T-Man 1066]

I wanted steel that is fairly soft (this has a hardness of 48-52 according to the manufacturer) because I was planning on using the same steel for making a pair of sash saws as well. I want to be able to change the configuration of the teeth on the sash saws depending on what I am cutting with them for each project. I will still use 1095 for the sash saws but I am definitely going to have to go with a thicker plate. Something around 0.025 or even 0.031.

After farting around with it today, I am convinced that I just tried to go too thin with the saw plate. I am confident that I will eventually get it right, but damn...

Stick with it, keep your eye on the prize!