Generator furnace hook-up

[Chiefster23]

RELIANCE TF151W. Look this up. An easy and relatively cheap way to properly connect your furnace to a portable generator without spending a small fortune rewiring your house. And it satisfies code! About $100

[Slippy]

http://reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?TF151W

I've got something similar and it works.

PS; As Reverse Murphy Law would have it, after I got my Transfer Switch up and running, I've only had a couple of small grid down power outages Damnit! I'm pretty sure if I hadn't been prepared, my dang power would be out all the time! :second:

[Dwight55]

OR . . . you can get a qualified electrician to come to your house . . . rewire the cable going to your furnace to (in most instances) a 220 volt male plug that matches the one on your generator.

Have him then install a matching 220 volt female plug on your wall below your circuit breaker box.

You plug your furnace into the wall plug until the electric goes out.

Then you unplug it and plug it into an extension cord that was made to match your generator plug . . . and your furnace plug.

It ain't rocket science . . .

May God bless,
Dwight

[BucketBack]

Back Feed ?

[T-Man 1066]

OR . . . you can get a qualified electrician to come to your house . . . rewire the cable going to your furnace to (in most instances) a 220 volt male plug that matches the one on your generator.

Have him then install a matching 220 volt female plug on your wall below your circuit breaker box.

You plug your furnace into the wall plug until the electric goes out.

Then you unplug it and plug it into an extension cord that was made to match your generator plug . . . and your furnace plug.

It ain't rocket science . . .

May God bless,
Dwight

NEMA L6-30 Twist lock would work, good for 30 AMPS. Home depot has a 50' extension cord for $93 that you could just change the male end to match your generator. HD will also have a L6-30R receptacle to install under your electrical panel.

Would be pretty easy, but get help if you are not experienced with electrical. 240V sucks, tell all your friends...

[T-Man 1066]

Back Feed ?

The plug option would be the safest bet. Still have to swap the plug manually, but when the rest of the power comes back on, you could make sure the furnace is off, the plug back into the house current.

I use Twist Lock plugs on most of my machinery in the shop. I have machines that run on 240v 1 phase, 240v 3 phase, 200v 3 phase, and 480v 3 phase. Smaller machines that move around have extension cords, good SOOW cable, with the correct NEMA plugs for each different voltage. If you can plug in the machine, voltage and rotation are correct. Fool proof...

[Dwight55]

Back Feed ?

Not in this life time . . .

May God bless,
Dwight

[Chiefster23]

I suggested this option to my buddy. He in turn asked an electrician who told him plugs in the basement on a furnace were not up to code??? But this Reliance box I posted uses a plug! I think he is full of shit, but I’m not a licensed electrician. I spent 30 years on ships and none of my repairs of any kind (even electrical) ever caused a fire. But hey! What the hell do I know? I’m just a dumb ass! LOL

[BucketBack]

I just pull / switch the main over. Genny is on a breaker box

One time the genny ran out it's 5 gallon tank and I was in the dark. Everyone else had lights for a few hours

Over here there's a push button switch. Start the genny, plug it in and push the button it disconnects the main, and allows the genny to bring us light

A lot easier than what the SeaBee came up with, cheaper too.

It may be in my future soon.

[BucketBack]

http://reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?TF151W

I've got something similar and it works.

PS; As Reverse Murphy Law would have it, after I got my Transfer Switch up and running, I've only had a couple of small grid down power outages Damnit! I'm pretty sure if I hadn't been prepared, my dang power would be out all the time! :second:

Something like that here, furnace is 110/120 V, other place is the same

[SOCOM42]

The plug option would be the safest bet. Still have to swap the plug manually, but when the rest of the power comes back on, you could make sure the furnace is off, the plug back into the house current.

I use Twist Lock plugs on most of my machinery in the shop. I have machines that run on 240v 1 phase, 240v 3 phase, 200v 3 phase, and 480v 3 phase. Smaller machines that move around have extension cords, good SOOW cable, with the correct NEMA plugs for each different voltage. If you can plug in the machine, voltage and rotation are correct. Fool proof...

Yup, SOO 600V #8 AWG here for extensions, twist lock plugs of correct amp also used.

I would hate to have to buy all that cable today.

[Dwight55]

I suggested this option to my buddy. He in turn asked an electrician who told him plugs in the basement on a furnace were not up to code??? But this Reliance box I posted uses a plug! I think he is full of shit, but I’m not a licensed electrician. I spent 30 years on ships and none of my repairs of any kind (even electrical) ever caused a fire. But hey! What the hell do I know? I’m just a dumb ass! LOL

Code . . . schmode . . .

There are about as many dufus electric codes out there as there are stars in the sky.

Just because something is not "code" doesn't mean it is not safe.

A friend told me that Chicago required all residential electric to be in conduit . . . and that is nothing more than the unions wanting more work . . . paying somebody to ram the "code" thru . . . and they don't need overtime any more . . . got plenty enough straight time.

Watergate when it was first implemented . . . demanded all aluminum wiring. After a couple dozen fires . . . perhaps a fatal one or two . . . all the aluminum was ripped out . . . changed over to copper.

Number 14 wire is legal in most states . . . posession of it in Tx can get you in a pile of trouble if the wrong inspector sees it.

We hook up our fridge, freezer, range, oven, dryer, washer, and God only knows what else to plugs . . . but furnaces would cause a problem??? Gimme a break

And if the basement is the problem . . . fine . . . run the cable up to the back porch . . . put the plug there . . . next to the generator . . . won't need an extension cord that way.

May God bless,
Dwight

[MoreAmmoOK]

I wired a 220 outlet in the well pump house. Made a 10 gage cord with two male plugs. Shut off the main supply switch at the pole, fire up the genny, connect the cord, whole house lights up. A manual process but cheap and it works. Gotta unplug heavy load stuff, freezers, extra fridge, flip the breaker for the AC if it's summer in order to not overload the genny. Works for me.

[1skrewsloose]

http://reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?TF151W

I've got something similar and it works.

PS; As Reverse Murphy Law would have it, after I got my Transfer Switch up and running, I've only had a couple of small grid down power outages Damnit! I'm pretty sure if I hadn't been prepared, my dang power would be out all the time! :second:

Isn't that the way it always works out, you dig and dig for the best price, after you buy the next day you see it for cheaper.

[T-Man 1066]

I wired a 220 outlet in the well pump house. Made a 10 gage cord with two male plugs. Shut off the main supply switch at the pole, fire up the genny, connect the cord, whole house lights up. A manual process but cheap and it works. Gotta unplug heavy load stuff, freezers, extra fridge, flip the breaker for the AC if it's summer in order to not overload the genny. Works for me.

Just be mindful that with a male / male cord, you have the potential to have hot male prongs on the end of the cord. That is why all receptacles are female.

We don 't need another Sparky here... :grim:

[1skrewsloose]

I always used Ugly's book for what was needed, last job I worked at had to change from #12 to # 10 for up to 30A for all new wiring. to meet code. Seems to me like overkill,

All depends on how much load is placed on a particular circuit, certainly, there is more than one load on a circuit, you could never wire a manufacturing plant with

dedicated circuit for each piece of machinery/auxillary equipment. in said plant. My Ugly's book is about 30 years old, might be time to get the updated version.

[MoreAmmoOK]

Yep, I make it a point to plug into the dead outlet first. When the power is back I shut down the genny, remove the cord from both ends, then flip the main.

[T-Man 1066]

I always used Ugly's book for what was needed, last job I worked at had to change from #12 to # 10 for up to 30A for all new wiring. to meet code. Seems to me like overkill,

All depends on how much load is placed on a particular circuit, certainly, there is more than one load on a circuit, you could never wire a manufacturing plant with

dedicated circuit for each piece of machinery/auxillary equipment. in said plant. My Ugly's book is about 30 years old, might be time to get the updated version.

Yea my Ugly's book is 25 years-ish... but a great resource!

[1skrewsloose]

Codes are so weird, I forget which way it goes, in Wi. you can do your own plumbing but not electrical, had to have it inspected, in MN. it's the opposite. I may be completely wrong on this, but I remember it was some crap that made no sense. I feel no shame at being corrected.

[Inor]

Code . . . schmode . . .

There are about as many dufus electric codes out there as there are stars in the sky.

Just because something is not "code" doesn't mean it is not safe.

A friend told me that Chicago required all residential electric to be in conduit . . . and that is nothing more than the unions wanting more work . . . paying somebody to ram the "code" thru . . . and they don't need overtime any more . . . got plenty enough straight time.

Watergate when it was first implemented . . . demanded all aluminum wiring. After a couple dozen fires . . . perhaps a fatal one or two . . . all the aluminum was ripped out . . . changed over to copper.

Number 14 wire is legal in most states . . . posession of it in Tx can get you in a pile of trouble if the wrong inspector sees it.

We hook up our fridge, freezer, range, oven, dryer, washer, and God only knows what else to plugs . . . but furnaces would cause a problem??? Gimme a break

And if the basement is the problem . . . fine . . . run the cable up to the back porch . . . put the plug there . . . next to the generator . . . won't need an extension cord that way.

May God bless,
Dwight

True that!

When we built M.T. Acres, the inspector dinged me for not having those stupid GFI breakers on EVERY circuit in the house! Those bloody things were over $110 per breaker six years ago! They are probably double that now. Plus they would trip with loud noises (like thunder)... Fortunately, we got to know one of the townies who is an electrician in his day job. He let me borrow several breakers for the inspection. Once I passed the inspection, the new breakers came out and the original ones went back in. So far, nothing has burned down.

[1skrewsloose]

True that!

When we built M.T. Acres, the inspector dinged me for not having those stupid GFI breakers on EVERY circuit in the house! Those bloody things were over $110 per breaker six years ago! They are probably double that now. Plus they would trip with loud noises (like thunder)... Fortunately, we got to know one of the townies who is an electrician in his day job. He let me borrow several breakers for the inspection. Once I passed the inspection, the new breakers came out and the original ones went back in. So far, nothing has burned down.

That is so stupid, GFI are meant to be used near showers, bathroom sinks, and kitchen sinks, anywhere water may be close, who has their bedroom plumbed for a water source. Abolish all regs on most everything, allow folks to determine the risks of their decisions, Gov has no right to dictate what I "feel/not feel" is a risk.

[T-Man 1066]

Insurance companies drive alot of that regulation.

[Chiefster23]

Yesterday I installed this new RELIANT box. It comes set up so all wiring connections are inside the main breaker box. Very easy. It turns out that my house is wired weird. On my furnace breaker I also have one kitchen light, hall light, bathroom light, and my internet router. WIN! I get all the necessary basics with only one connection and no fussing around. I tested it and my Honda 2000 handles it fine. I’m all set. Bring on the ice storm!

[BucketBack]

What's a GFI ? I only have 2 wires most places

[POBILLY DUKE]

My furnace 110.

We had a new furnace installed 2 yrs ago, this new furnace will not run from the generator. I tried reversing the wires to the plug, grounding the generator, etc.

Our oid furnace ran fine from the generator without any modification at all.

What am I doing wrong?

[hawgrider]

My furnace 110.

We had a new furnace installed 2 yrs ago, this new furnace will not run from the generator. I tried reversing the wires to the plug, grounding the generator, etc.

Our oid furnace ran fine from the generator without any modification at all.

What am I doing wrong?

Where are you hooking up the generator?
Are you back feeding from a duplex receptacle off the outside of the house?

If so you are only feeding power to one of two buss bars in your breaker panel.

[Dwight55]

What's a GFI ? I only have 2 wires most places

GFI stands for Ground Fault Interruptor . . .

The idea is that should a ground occur on that circuit (and more than likely life threatening) . . . it will shut off the power before the person can get shocked.

And from all I've ever observed . . . they will do that . . .

The down side is that if you have even the smallest drifting ground current . . . which is a common occurrence with 3 prong tools: saws, drills, sanders, routers . . . not all by any means . . . but just enough to jack your jaws real tight.

That is why most tools today are plastic cased . . . and two wire . . .

They are supposed to be used in all bathrooms . . . within 6 feet of any sink . . . all outdoor or garage plugs . . . and various and sundry other applications demanded by your locality.

They are a good idea in my book . . . but not for every place in the house.

May God bless,
Dwight

[POBILLY DUKE]

I unplug the furnace from the wall receptical, then plug the furnace directly into an ext cord that runs directly to the generator.

[hawgrider]

I unplug the furnace from the wall receptical, then plug the furnace directly into an ext cord that runs directly to the generator.

That is strange.
How many watts is the generator?

[POBILLY DUKE]

3500, 4000 peak.
I've tried to get it to work with nothing but the furnace attached to be sure nothing else was causing this problem.

[Inor]

What's a GFI ? I only have 2 wires most places

The circuit breakers are not called "GFI"; they have a different name, but that is essentially what they are. And they are stupid expensive. A normal breaker. costs $5-$6 and these stupid things were well north of $100 PER BREAKER, 5 years ago. The "international building code", which our county code is based on, basically requires them on everything. Not only are they expensive, they also trip with loud noises.

For the couple days we had them installed, they were tripping a couple times per day just from the normal noises.

They are the classic case of an electrical engineer who designed something without ever actually visiting the site of a house build where they would be used. Then a bunch of panty waste building code people decided to require them because they sounded good on paper (or because they were getting bought off by the company that makes them). They are stupid beyond measure!

[Chiefster23]

I unplug the furnace from the wall receptical, then plug the furnace directly into an ext cord that runs directly to the generator.

Couple of things. 1. Your furnace most probably has electronic controls and your generator may be a cheaper model that doesn’t generate a pure sine wave at 60 cycles.
2. There are 2 types of generators, floating ground and bonded ground. The generator grounding method may not be compatible with the furnace. I can’t help you with that here as I don’t fully understand this concept myself.

[hawgrider]

3500, 4000 peak.
I've tried to get it to work with nothing but the furnace attached to be sure nothing else was causing this problem. thats a small generator. 4000 watts peak surge. The new furnace may have a biggler fan motor.
Check to see how many run amps the motor is. It takes 1 and a half times the run Amps when the motor starts. So the old genny may not be big enough for the new furnace.

Give our buddy Sparkyprep a PM he is the Electrician round here he may be able to explain it better.

[SOCOM42]

My furnace 110.

We had a new furnace installed 2 yrs ago, this new furnace will not run from the generator. I tried reversing the wires to the plug, grounding the generator, etc.

Our oid furnace ran fine from the generator without any modification at all.

What am I doing wrong?

Do you have a voltmeter?

[POBILLY DUKE]

My generator is on the cheaper side (Champion).
My old furnace had electronic controls and it ran fine off the generator. This new furnace was installed 2 yrs ago which now has me in this situation.
Just shaking my head.......

[POBILLY DUKE]

Yes, I do.

[POBILLY DUKE]

I will check the run amps. Thanks

[SOCOM42]

I run two oil burners off of 4,500 watts.

Not tonight but, I will walk you through some test, unless you can do them without instructions,

Tomorrow I should be here in the evening, I have to test run mine tomorrow, did not get to it today.

I have three to run one dual fuel and one gas, the is last diesel, hate running that one.

The circulator fan load does not apply until the stack has come up to temp, the primary takes care of that.

Both motors even if started together would not overload the generator.

Oh, yeah, what voltage is the genset?

Are the plugs and extension wire two or three wire on all relative to this problem?

On the access door or panel is there a schematic of the wiring?

Can you give me the make and model of the whole furnace unit, might be able to find it online.

[MountainGirl]

I unplug the furnace from the wall receptical, then plug the furnace directly into an ext cord that runs directly to the generator.

You said your new furnace is a 110? Was the old one 240?
I always go for the simplest first. Plug something else into the extension cord, and run it, to rule out that it's a cord problem.
Other than that, I got nothing. Good luck!

[Chiefster23]

Use your volt meter and measure the voltage at the female plug at the end of your extension cord to verify that the generator is functioning and the extension cord is ok. Maybe plug something in to test the genny and this part of the problem.

Then take the same extension cord and plug it into the same receptacle you plug you furnace in to. Plug the furnace in to the female end. Does your furnace work?

If the furnace works, most likely your problem is a floating neutral. Your furnace may be wired so the it will not run if it doesn’t detect a grounding connection. The generator has a floating neutral and when you disconnect your furnace plug from the wall receptacle , you remove the ground connection. To fix this you will need to ground the furnace to your house ground.

[T-Man 1066]

It might be exactly what Chiefster23 just said. The generator likely will have a lug on the frame for an auxillary ground.

[MoreAmmoOK]

I unplug the furnace from the wall receptical, then plug the furnace directly into an ext cord that runs directly to the generator.

Could the transformer that powers the thermostat be on another circuit? Seems like I've seen some set up that way.

[POBILLY DUKE]

It might be exactly what Chiefster23 just said. The generator likely will have a lug on the frame for an auxillary ground.

I did ground the generator with a copper cable to a metal stake 16" into the ground.

[POBILLY DUKE]

Could the transformer that powers the thermostat be on another circuit? Seems like I've seen some set up that way.

This I have no idea, I can check our circuit box, maybe it could tell me.

[POBILLY DUKE]

thats a small generator. 4000 watts peak surge. The new furnace may have a biggler fan motor.
Check to see how many run amps the motor is. It takes 1 and a half times the run Amps when the motor starts. So the old genny may not be big enough for the new furnace.

Give our buddy Sparkyprep a PM he is the Electrician round here he may be able to explain it better.

I could not find anything on the motor other than 115 volts 60 HZ

[POBILLY DUKE]

I run two oil burners off of 4,500 watts.

Not tonight but, I will walk you through some test, unless you can do them without instructions,

Tomorrow I should be here in the evening, I have to test run mine tomorrow, did not get to it today.

I have three to run one dual fuel and one gas, the is last diesel, hate running that one.

The circulator fan load does not apply until the stack has come up to temp, the primary takes care of that.

Both motors even if started together would not overload the generator.

Oh, yeah, what voltage is the genset?

Are the plugs and extension wire two or three wire on all relative to this problem?

On the access door or panel is there a schematic of the wiring?

Can you give me the make and model of the whole furnace unit, might be able to find it online.

Generator is a Champian 3500, 4000 peak
Everything is 3 wire
There is wiring schematic
Make and Model - Amana AMEC961004CNAS
And I do have a volt meter

[POBILLY DUKE]

Use your volt meter and measure the voltage at the female plug at the end of your extension cord to verify that the generator is functioning and the extension cord is ok. Maybe plug something in to test the genny and this part of the problem.

Then take the same extension cord and plug it into the same receptacle you plug you furnace in to. Plug the furnace in to the female end. Does your furnace work?

If the furnace works, most likely your problem is a floating neutral. Your furnace may be wired so the it will not run if it doesn’t detect a grounding connection. The generator has a floating neutral and when you disconnect your furnace plug from the wall receptacle , you remove the ground connection. To fix this you will need to ground the furnace to your house ground.

I will need to check into whether or not the furnace is grounded to the house ground, if not I will have to figure out how to do that.

[POBILLY DUKE]

Could the transformer that powers the thermostat be on another circuit? Seems like I've seen some set up that way.

I wouldn't think so, we are using the same thermostat the old furnace used.

[Chiefster23]

I will need to check into whether or not the furnace is grounded to the house ground, if not I will have to figure out how to do that.

The furnace is grounded thru the grounding prong on your plug. When you connect to the generator thru this plug, you are no longer grounded to the house ground. Try grounding your generator to the house ground instead of the rod into the ground.

Older houses are sometimes grounded by connection to the copper water pipes. See if this is the case.

[POBILLY DUKE]

The furnace is grounded thru the grounding prong on your plug. When you connect to the generator thru this plug, you are no longer grounded to the house ground. Try grounding your generator to the house ground instead of the rod into the ground.

Older houses are sometimes grounded by connection to the copper water pipes. See if this is the case.

This house was built in 1995.
I will find the house ground and try to ground the generator that way.
I appreciate the help from all of you here on OTP!