Who is ready for an extended power outage?

[BugMan]

:biglaugh: This guy.
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Tri-Fuel Adaptor. Gas, Propane and Natural Gas. Plan on using Natural Gas first if that goes down I have 3 Propane tanks. That runs out I have 15g of gasoline ready to go. Prefer not to use that though.

[BugMan]

Oh, I'd be remiss if I didn't give a shoutout to Admin1 for pushing me to get one and finding me an amazing deal on this. Thanks!

[Suspicious Package]

Share the deal!

[BugMan]

He was able to get this Rigid Generator that is normally 1K plus tax for $750 out the door. He has mad negotiating skills and a spider web of relationships that make it possible.

[BugMan]

I just heard that 115,000 in GA are currently without power. Precipitation still falling with much more to come. Hope you have your generator ready! I hope those 115,000 made some sort of preparation to weather the storm. It's a god awful day to be sans heat.

[RWalls]

Looks like you may need it!

[Beach Kowboy]

We are able to live off grid indefinately.. Our cabin(only 650sf plus loft) will be done in the next few weeks and it is totally off grid. With power coming from solar. It will be heated with a wood stove. I am building an outside shower/bath/sauna house about 20-30ft from the back door so the cabin will be kitchen/dining and living room downstairs and master bedroom upstairs. The bath house will be heated by wood including water by wood heat as well.

We also have 3 Rigid generators for the ranch and shop though. Not to mention about 6000 gallons of propane and several thousand gallons each of gasoline and diesel fuel. And several more solar panels for the shop with a decent battery bank We also have a few lines in the ground for natural gas and are lucky enough to have a MAJOR natural gas well underneath us.. I am also goin to put u[ a wind turbine this spring if I can make the time..

The gas resources should hold us a while. After that, we should be able to get by on solar.. We also have a TON of non powered appliances like meat grinder,grain grinder,bicycle powered washing machine and several other neat things like that. Not to mention 6 root cellars most of them filled and dairy cows,several hundred head of beef cows,sheep,goats(both dairy and meat),pork,meat and egg chickens and enough game animals to last a lifetime.. So we are off to a good start.LOL

[HuntingHawk]

Not sure how long an "extended" outage is but have a large gasoline generator plus a 520watt solar system.

[big paul]

in a "extended"(read:permanent) power outage, most generators are too noisy and the sound will carry for miles when there is no vehicle noise, giving away the fact you have power and probably food and supplies too.

[HuntingHawk]

Even wind turbine & hydro make a high pitch noise.

[ekim]

I hate to say it but my generator is down right now and only runs on gas any how. I'm looking at converting to propane, just need to get the money to proceed.

[Vandelescrow]

thoughts on converting it to natural gas? During power outages you should still have that available, right?

[Kanman]

I would say Beach Kowboy has a fantastic start!

[Arklatex]

All I can handle is running my well and a chest freezer until I run out of gas or the genny breaks down. I also have a wood stove for winter heating. One of these years I'll save up enough to get a good solar setup.

[Bigdogbuc]

Who's ready WITHOUT a generator? Me. But I think we need to determine what's "Long Term" or "extended". I would be fairly comfortable for about a week or two without power. Inconvenienced because we're spoiled, but reasonably comfortable. I have the Coleman stoves, a few gallons of fuel, A propane Lantern, a dual fuel lantern and two Kerosene Lanterns (extra mantles & wicks). I have a portable fire pit, and a Dutch Oven (16 qt. I think - it's huge) and I regularly cook over an open fire, aside from BBQ, of which I have a propane grill. The only thing I currently lack for a "power out" situation is a heater (propane or other fuel powered). The downside is the inability to keep perishables cold.

I look at "power" this way; To me, it serves one crucial survival function in today's society, and that's to keep things cold. I can't make cold. I could use propane to do it, but I don't have a fridge like that and eventually, if it last's long enough, I'll run out of propane. Though it's not a bad investment, but again, we need to define "long term" or "extended". Electricity powers my TV, my computer, my coffee maker, various appliances (stove, fridge, washer/dryer) etc.; All things I consider luxury items that we as a society have become accustomed to as "essential items". And they are not. Not really.

Without electricity, I can fulfill two very basic human needs that go back to primitive humanity; I can make my own light (our instinctive fear of the dark), I can cook or preserve food (our need to eat). From there, I can wash my own clothes, still practice basic hygiene and a host of other things, that don't necessarily require electricity to make it happen. Civilization has been around for thousands and thousands of years. Consumable electricity by the general population has been around for less than 130 years, and not readily available in homes until the 1930's, rural areas until the 1940's. And when you're the one house on the block with electricity, I suspect you'll get some visitors.

[HuntingHawk]

Electricity makes life easier though.

[big paul]

the human race hasn't had electricity very long, in my part of the world we didn't get it until the 1930s in the 50s and early 60s my grandparents still had gas lights! it wont take us long to learn to live without, only the sheeple wont want to-but that's their problem, I'm all ready.

[SquirrelBait]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNKifJHqScc Zeer pot for refigeration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxODae_BS74 Home made stove.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ukb_WoUG2Q Tandoor oven.

You Tube is your friend...

[Pauls]

Gas today is fed by electric pumps - just like our water, fuel, and sewage.

[Chipper]

I'm ready. I just hope it happens in the dead of winter so it quickly gets rid of the sheep.

[TJC44]

Another item on the "to do" list at the bol, build an icehouse, and stock it over the winter.

[Pauls]

There are quite a few people who have no concept of what they rely on that is electrically delivered or dependant on electricity to function.

If you live in the city and there is a nationwide power failure you will soon have nothing but the roof over your head. Unless you have cash or precious metals you won't have that when the rent is due.

[Kanman]

There are quite a few people who have no concept of what they rely on that is electrically delivered or dependant on electricity to function.

If you live in the city and there is a nationwide power failure you will soon have nothing but the roof over your head. Unless you have cash or precious metals you won't have that when the rent is due.

All true except, if we have a nation wide power failure, it won't take but a day or two until it won't matter if you pay the rent or not.

[Pauls]

All true except, if we have a nation wide power failure, it won't take but a day or two until it won't matter if you pay the rent or not.

You may be right, but what about taxes?

[Innkeeper]

I have the tri-gas generator already sitting by waiting for me to close on my house. I am converting my boiler from propane to Natural gas which will also be run to the Gennie, but I am keeping the Propane tank as a back up as well , just in case, and in emergency needs I do have the fuel set aside for my vehicles if I need them. Luckily up here Natural Gas is a huge resource it is pumped all over the country from here, even when we have had large swath power outages in the winter before no gas outages so I am going to say either that is not pumped electrically, or like many of the pumping stations actually run their power generation off of the Gas they are pumping with a diesel back up for restart if there is maintenance required.

[Inor]

I am converting my boiler from propane to Natural gas which will also be run to the Gennie, but I am keeping the Propane tank as a back up as well , just in case, and in emergency needs I do have the fuel set aside for my vehicles if I need them.

I thought most appliances could pretty much use natural gas and propane interchangeably without modification?

[Innkeeper]

I thought most appliances could pretty much use natural gas and propane interchangeably without modification?

I am not sure...I will let you know when I get it done, The Guy doing my home inspection said if I was going to change over to NG then I had to have someone come out and change the set up at the boiler...I am thinking he just means hooking up the lines. The house I am buying is on propane but there is a gas line running out front and they just never changed over I plan to. It will cost 2300 but they will fold it into payments in my bill. NG is just so much cheaper then propane. But the Gas supplier do not hook your stuff up just run the lines to the house.

[Montana Rancher]

I thought most appliances could pretty much use natural gas and propane interchangeably without modification?

Wow, schooling Inor on something.....

Just basking in the glow for a sec.....

but wrong, natural gas is delivered at a lot lower pressure than LPG and so the orifices need to be bigger for NG than LPG.

So if you have a stove on NG and put it on LPG the pressure is about 2x normal and it will not function properly, and vice versa.

Usually an appliance (mine included) have an extra set of ports attached to the back to convert the appliance over, water heaters are different but if you get a model intended for "mobile home use" it will usually include both the burner for LPG and NG in the same box, you should note that these need to be directly vented and use oxygen from inside the dwelling and not drawn down from the outside of the stack.

[Montana Rancher]

Also I posted about a 3750 watt solar system I put on my house last year on another site. I am using a 48v system with a MPPT charge controller and a 240v inverter running my deep well pump (200ft) my 2x large chest freezers, my upstairs refrigerator and other odd appliances.

I set this up simply to supply power to what I felt was necessary and have ignored the other things that are optional like my laser printer, my TV etc.

After 17 months of operation, it works like a champ and I feel better knowing I can keep my 2 substantial freezers, my refrigerator, and my fresh water working even in the dead of winter.

If I can't power my lights, TV, cell phone charger, not a big deal. At that point I will probably not want to.

[Arklatex]

Also I posted about a 3750 watt solar system I put on my house last year on another site. I am using a 48v system with a MPPT charge controller and a 240v inverter running my deep well pump (200ft) my 2x large chest freezers, my upstairs refrigerator and other odd appliances.

I set this up simply to supply power to what I felt was necessary and have ignored the other things that are optional like my laser printer, my TV etc.

After 17 months of operation, it works like a champ and I feel better knowing I can keep my 2 substantial freezers, my refrigerator, and my fresh water working even in the dead of winter.

If I can't power my lights, TV, cell phone charger, not a big deal. At that point I will probably not want to.
That sounds awesome. I'm curious: did you get to use the incentive program? I've heard that you can save up to 70% off the total cost.

[Montana Rancher]

I have put in for the appropriate tax credits from the Federal and State returns, it did cut my costs but isn't 70%, I am actually just finishing up 2013 taxes with my CPA and will try to remember to posts the total tax credits.

Since I am in a rural electric co-op, a lot of the tax credits were not available to me.

[Montana Rancher]

I wanted to get back to you, sorry for the delay I've butchering elk.

haha

The overall investment was $12.070 dollars and according to my form 5695 I was able to take a tax CREDIT of $3621 on my taxes (that isn't a write off, that is a credit)

So my overall savings was about 25% of my investment, but keep in mind from all angles I am in the top 10% of wage earners, they jabbed me quite a bit because of that.

[Montana Rancher]

For those that dream of solar power SHTF here is my 2nd year wrap up

I have a really extensive and expensive solar array 48 watt battery bank and 3750 watt solar array, if you haven't followed on other posts the total cost is around $12000 dollars.

During the summer I have so many excess watts I find creative ways to burn them up including window mounted AC units.

But

When we get into the winter as 1. the sunlight is a LOT less, and 2. the sun angle is a lot lower, and 3. the skies are a lot more overcast.

I cannot run my whole house on solar, in fact I am am running my generator about 6 hours a day to keep up, that is 6 hours x 3 gallons of propane per hour x 1.50 a gallon = $30 a day for power

So I just pulled the plug on my solar option and plugged into my "grid" source for a savings of about $27

I put a lot of money into solar, and when I need it and the SHTF it will be my salvation, but until then, the grid wins.

[longrider]

Wow, MR. I'd love to see the set-up. I'm planning on just going off grid when SHTF. I would like to have communitcation, but hope to rig something that can run by manuel crank. By bicycle or something like that. Having my fat dogs on a treadmill... Just kidding. But not about the bike idea. Other than that, will depend on ingenuity and brain-power to figure out refrigeration, etc. Those two things would be my only concern. It would be nice to have a well with a pump, but I'd be afraid of the noise generated.

[Jeep]

Other than wood I am not prepared. And up here I need to be.

[SquirrelBait]

Is your system hardened against EMP?

[Montana Rancher]

I have done a lot of reading on EMP and it is hard to really understand or prepare for it as there are a lot of variables. My solar panels are grounded and not on the grid so I don't think my solar system will be effected like a grid tied system.

Truthfully I really don't know, it depends on the distance from me of the EMP burst, but my backup water system is a year round creek 150 feet from my back door and a Berkey filtration system.

I would prefer a EMP wouldn't take out my charge controller or inverter, but I really can't be sure.

[Pauls]

As long as the EMP is a solar event your PV panels will be fine - they would most likely be fine even if you were connected to the grid.

An HEMP will convert your solar panels to warming trays. They are diodes and will be fried by an E1 pulse just as fast as your computer. The effective range of an E1 pulse is dependent on just two things:

1. The amount of gamma radiation produced
and
2. The altitude of the blast. The higher the blast the more area is affected. A single blast like the one used on Hiroshima if detonated at two hundred miles above the earth would fry the electronics in all of the mainland USA and half of Canada.

The E1 pulse would take out the electronics and the following E2 and E3 pulses would take out the transformers and generators at all major distribution centers and then fry the power lines across most of the North American continent. it would take several decades to recover from it IF we had some help from the European countries.

[Montana Rancher]

As long as the EMP is a solar event your PV panels will be fine - they would most likely be fine even if you were connected to the grid.

An HEMP will convert your solar panels to warming trays. They are diodes and will be fried by an E1 pulse just as fast as your computer. The effective range of an E1 pulse is dependent on just two things:

1. The amount of gamma radiation produced
and
2. The altitude of the blast. The higher the blast the more area is affected. A single blast like the one used on Hiroshima if detonated at two hundred miles above the earth would fry the electronics in all of the mainland USA and half of Canada.

The E1 pulse would take out the electronics and the following E2 and E3 pulses would take out the transformers and generators at all major distribution centers and then fry the power lines across most of the North American continent. it would take several decades to recover from it IF we had some help from the European countries.

if you are right, I will be a king after the SHTF as I can charge batteries and have fresh water forever

[Prepared One]

An HEMP is one of those things we all can't prepare for. If that where to happen I think we could count on an explosion several times larger then the one used on Hiroshima and then of coarse the follow up. Then all bets are off unless perahps it is Terrorist related. Can we count on the help of the Europeans? Maybe. Can we count on our enemies pilling on? I think so. One things for sure, we will be religated to the dark ages in the blink of an eye.

[Pauls]

well, an HEMP won't affect a wind genertor of small size unless it uses semiconductor controls. Even at that the generator would still work. Charge controllers and regulators that use semiconductors would be toast but if you used one of the old relay type regulators it would be unaffected.

Permanent magnet generators would work after an HEMP too. I think that there are those who would be completely unaffected - or at least not noticeably affected by an HEMP. If you have enough land to feed yourself and an extra 5 or 10 acres you could produce alcohol to use for heating and fuel for a generator. I know I could rig a rudimentary voltage regulator to cut off the charge to a battery bank from an unregulated wind generator. We have a great deal more information than the common man had in the dark ages so I think at the individual level we could be alright. Industry and commercial production would be completely shut down for decades.

[Montana Rancher]

Wind storm took out the power for 11 hours today, probably a downed power pole, I was working.

I got home and my wife mentioned that the refrigerator was still working, she took a shower with no problems, and needless to say the chest freezers were fine.

Except for the loss on internet I think we could have been really happy.

[Montana Rancher]

Wind storm took out the power for 11 hours today, probably a downed power pole, I was working.

I got home and my wife mentioned that the refrigerator was still working, she took a shower with no problems, and needless to say the chest freezers were fine.

Except for the loss on internet I think we could have been really happy.

For late comers, I put in a pretty decent solar system 2 years ago, 48V battery backup, 3750W solar panel setup, it runs my freezers, well pump and refrigerator. I can also work my forced air furnace and my computer (vanity).

In the summer I can power the whole house, in the winter I am very limited due to less sunlight hours and less direct sunlight.

[Montana Rancher]

I just ordered a 13KW Onan generator (LPG) to back up my solar system, I wanted a 20KW generator but was told the EPA would fine me if I went off grid and used that generator to back up my solar, a curious fact.

My 2 year history running solar is I will have to use the generator sparingly about 3 months, which should easily offset the generator fuel costs and save me the $700 a year I spend being hooked to the grid for electricity. Of course the $4500 I spent on the generator has to be figured into the plan which makes this a 10 year or so pay off just for the generator. My only hope is the Onan Generator will perform as expected and last me at least that amount of time. I don't expect to make money on this deal, just have power years into the future when everyone else does not.

P.S. the 13kw generator burns about 1.5 GPH which gives me about 600 hours of burn time on my 1k propane tank. I expect that will last me several years.

[Sparkyprep]

MR, you have the best power set up of anyone I've seen. Hopefully, I will get to the point that you are at. I don't get the whole "EPA can fine you" part though. Fine you for what, exactly?

[James m]

Who needs electricity anyway? What did they do before electricity?

[Sparkyprep]

Died young, most often.

[Inor]

Who needs electricity anyway? What did they do before electricity?

I don't much care if I have electricity for lights or computers or phones. But I definitely want it for refrigeration. Mrs Inor and I have talked on that several times. If we had an EMP or some other catastrophe that left us without electricity in October or November we would be fine. We could cut enough ice in the winter months and turn our garden shed into an ice house. We have an old 75 pound ice box to keep a few days worth of food at a time cold with an ice block. We would have no problem. But if the same event happened in April or May, we would be screwed, blued and tattooed. We would not have fresh food for at least 6 months.

Having electricity is a BIG deal for being able to have some free time when you are not constantly trying to gather or kill enough food to get by for a few days. Could I do it? Yep. Would I want to? Not a chance.

[Innkeeper]

I don't much care if I have electricity for lights or computers or phones. But I definitely want it for refrigeration. Mrs Inor and I have talked on that several times. If we had an EMP or some other catastrophe that left us without electricity in October or November we would be fine. We could cut enough ice in the winter months and turn our garden shed into an ice house. We have an old 75 pound ice box to keep a few days worth of food at a time cold with an ice block. We would have no problem. But if the same event happened in April or May, we would be screwed, blued and tattooed. We would not have fresh food for at least 6 months.

Having electricity is a BIG deal for being able to have some free time when you are not constantly trying to gather or kill enough food to get by for a few days. Could I do it? Yep. Would I want to? Not a chance.

Amen Brother, I agree with that sentiment completely.

[Montana Rancher]

Died young, most often.


I don't much care if I have electricity for lights or computers or phones. But I definitely want it for refrigeration. Mrs Inor and I have talked on that several times. If we had an EMP or some other catastrophe that left us without electricity in October or November we would be fine. We could cut enough ice in the winter months and turn our garden shed into an ice house. We have an old 75 pound ice box to keep a few days worth of food at a time cold with an ice block. We would have no problem. But if the same event happened in April or May, we would be screwed, blued and tattooed. We would not have fresh food for at least 6 months.

Having electricity is a BIG deal for being able to have some free time when you are not constantly trying to gather or kill enough food to get by for a few days. Could I do it? Yep. Would I want to? Not a chance.


MR, you have the best power set up of anyone I've seen. Hopefully, I will get to the point that you are at. I don't get the whole "EPA can fine you" part though. Fine you for what, exactly?

I would guess that if you have to USE fossil fuels so much that a 20K generator is neccessary then you have a bigger carbon footprint than just being tied to the grid.

Read that again real slow, that is my best guess.

But here is the point and it adjusts depending where you are and what you intend to do.

I am powering 95 cubic feet of freezers, a really nice refer, a deep well 220v well and I run my NG heating system which doesn't apply now.

The system I discribed is at 100% capacity about 11:00

In the summer I am OFF THE GRID

So the generator I am putting in is to take me through thte 3-4 months that I get 5 hours of over cast skies between November and Feburary.

Of course the good news is when the cold weather comes I can easily move the refrigerator outside or unplug the force air furnace and just burn some wood.

My freezers are already outside, and would benefit from the colder temperatures, and if it really did SHTF i would probably empty out at least 1 of the 2 freezers feeding everyone I have invited to come to me.

My intention is to help not only my close relative (many) but my neighbors through any collapse. The neighbors I know of are 48.