Thinking about living off the Grid in your current home? Judge says it's illegal.

[BugMan]

Living off the grid is illegal in Cape Coral, Florida, according to a court ruling Thursday. (http://www.offthegridnews.com/2014/02/22/court-rules-off-the-grid-living-is-illegal/)

Special Magistrate Harold S. Eskin ruled that the city’s codes allow Robin Speronis to live without utility power but she is still required to hook her home to the city’s water system. Her alternative source of power must be approved by the city, Eskin said.

As previously reported in Off The Grid News, Speronis has been fighting the city of Cape Coral since November when a code enforcement officer tried to evict her from her home for living without utilities. The city contends that Speronis violated the International Property Maintenance Code by relying on rain water instead of the city water system and solar panels instead of the electric grid.

[BugMan]

It's funny how modern conveniences went from a luxury to a mandatory necessity. We are totally screwed as a species.

[Montgomery]

It's funny how modern conveniences went from a luxury to a mandatory necessity. We are totally screwed as a species.

Yeah, I have a perpetual feeling of impending doom for the human race. I think about all the freedoms we've lost in a SINGLE generation! Pretty soon we'll be biometrically identified, electronically tracked, and kept in line by drones we can't even see.

[RWalls]

I've been following this story. Pretty ironic if you think about it, Obama and his "green" administration blowing billions on green projects that fail, meanwhile a person who is really living green is being served with threats of eviction, fined, being forced into court, etc. because she doesn't want the utilities that the city provides.

[Montgomery]

They can't argue that it's a health hazard...as far as I know, you can't "Shut off" the sewage and running a gallon of rainwater down the ****ter should flush it just fine.

[rice paddy daddy]

Luckily we live in the boonies. Our water comes from a well and we have a septic system. I also had a seperate drainfield put in for grey water from the sinks and bathtub to save space in the septic tank.
If we went solar, our power company doesn't mind.
Our area is zoned OR, stands for Open Rural, we can do pretty much what we want.
We once lived in the megaopolis that is South Florida with all its rules and regulations. I will NEVER live that way again after tasting country freedom.

[big paul]

it may be mandatory to be hooked up to the mains but as far as I know nobody can force you to use them.

[Vandelescrow]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for what she is doing. I think the cities stand point may be on the matter of maintenance of the city infrastructure. last summer or the summer before (can't remember for sure when) here in North Carolina due to the drought we were encouraged to conserve water. Then the sewer/water utility companies came out and said due to the water conservation they are not making enough money to maintain their equipment.

So if more and more people go off the grid, this can cause problems for cities.

[Deebo]

Well, I hope and pray that when I do retire, or sooner, i want to be "off grid" completely. I will have to check Arizona laws, Nm laws, and Arkansas laws, but the area we retire on will be very rural. No more big city for Deebo.
Between rabbits, goats, guinee pigs, quail, and a garden, with solar and hopefully some hydro- electric, Deebo will disapeer.

[Pauls]

Well, you can't disappear, as my brother found out but there are places you don't have to be connected to the grid or utilities. The weird thing is that you pay a minimum fee just to be connected to the grid and water - whether or not you use it. In Seattle the minimum was $15 for electric and about twice that for water. (the water bill included water, sewer, and solid waste removal (garbage). The city required you to be connected to power and water.
So you pay whether you want it or not.

[Bigdogbuc]

There are all kinds of "mandatory" fees. I was taking care of personal business & paying the bills for a buddy of mine who went on deployment 7 or 8 years ago. I got his Natural Gas Bill and it was nearly $40. I called the gas company and was like "WTF? Nobody lives there, the hot water isn't even on and it's July, so the heat isn't being used." Turns out you pay a bit over $35 a month for the meter. Yep. You rent it, so they can use it to bill you with.

We pay "mandatory" recycling fee's. Got the garbage bill years ago and called them up and said "WTF? I don't recycle, I don't even have a bin for recycling." Our county commissioners passed an ordinance that mandated a "Recycling Fee" for EVERY SINGLE PERSON that receives garbage service. Whether they use it or not. I now have a recycling bin that I don't use, that I pay a fee for, on top of the recycling fee. AND, AND!!!, not only do we pay them for the service, but they double dip because they then sell the stuff to recycling centers and make money from it that way as well. So we basically do all the work and pay them for it to boot.

Kind of like sales tax in our state, or any other for that matter, the retailers are unpaid "Revenue Agents" for the state. It is their responsibility to collect it, account for it, then write the state a check.

I'm contemplating starting a side business and here's what I need; Federal Firearms License, State Business License, City Business License, State Firearms Dealers License (which takes 6 months and can only be obtained AFTER I receive my FFL). I get to pay Business & Occupation Tax to the State AND the City both, Sales Tax to the State, Income Tax to the Feds. And when you're in business for yourself, it's 15% right off the top (Self Employed Tax) to the Feds.

The sons-a-bitches are thieves and they will get you coming and going!!! Pursuit of Happiness? Sure. As long as you can afford to write a whole bunch of checks for the privilege.

[Pauls]

Unless you have employees you won't need to pay B&O taxes. Just check the "no" box where it asks if you have or are planning to have employees.

There is also inventory tax, and others that depend on your location.

You should also look into the requirements (state and local fire codes and insurers requirements) for the storage of guns, ammunition, powder, and primers. You will likely find the strictest requirement are those of the insurance companies.

[HuntingHawk]

Latest info on the case:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-10/off-the-grid-in-florida-robin-speronis-fights-municipal-code#p1

[Bigdogbuc]

Unless you have employees you won't need to pay B&O taxes. Just check the "no" box where it asks if you have or are planning to have employees.

There is also inventory tax, and others that depend on your location.

You should also look into the requirements (state and local fire codes and insurers requirements) for the storage of guns, ammunition, powder, and primers. You will likely find the strictest requirement are those of the insurance companies.

I won't have any ammo, primers or powder except for my own personal stuff. I'm also trying to figure out if I need two separate class FFL's or just one. If I get just the Manufacturers, then I should be able to skip having to get the state dealers license. I would not be a dealer, just a manufacturer. It could hinge on whether or not I can "transfer" my own product, or if transfers of my product HAVE to be done by a Dealer. I haven't been able to find a clear ruling from the ATF on whether I'm allowed to transfer firearms that I manufacture exclusively, as opposed to buying "wholesale", selling "retail" and being classified as a firearms "dealer".

[Notsoyoung]

I can understand mandatory hooking up to the sewer system if you live in a town. In a built up area human waste disposal is a major concern to prevent diseases. The trouble with depending on rain water is what happens to these people during a drought? Look at all those people in Detroit who have had their water turned off because they didn't pay their water bills. Think they just go out and buy water, or is it more likely that they just sneak into their neighbors yards at night and get water off of THEIR outside water spigots? It just reinforces my opinion that if you live in a city if the SHTF you are SCREWED.

[MI.oldguy]

Kinda reminds me,My late, loved,Father and Mother were in the junk business when I was a kid.we cleaned cellars,jumped dumpsters,scrapped metals etc,and a inspector from the city we lived in came to our house to inquire as why we did not have a garbage collection account.My dad explained what they did for a living and told him,one way or another we go to the dump every other day or so anyway.so I dont need to pay the city to dump our garbage.the inspector said yes you do.so, instead of fighting city hall,dad said OK,so get an account started for us,which was only $9.00 a month anyway,up to three cans a week.you should have seen some of the crap dad and mom threw in the trash for them to haul!.old wood,tin,(it was only $5.00 a ton then,not worth hauling),a dead raccoon once,rotten stinking fruit and veggies we would get from the produce terminal that was not edible(we would get it for free and sort it out,dad knew some of the vendors) all kinds of junk for them to haul away. we sure got our moneys worth out of those poor bastards.

[Arizona Infidel]

So from reading this, I see a couple issues. First is the sewer. She's using it she should pay for it. Second thing is the dispute of who owns the property. That has to be rectified. And the dog. Apparently it was found out it wasn't an issue caused by neglect. She should be reimbursed for the false imprisonment. Other than those things she should be left alone.