Experts warn civilian world not ready for massive EMP-caused blackout

[BugMan]

US Not ready for an EMP. Exerts say costs to prepare could run as little as 2 Billion. (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/21/experts-warn-civilian-world-not-ready-for-massive-emp-caused-blackout/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+%28Interna l+-+Politics+-+Text%29)

"The catastrophic effects of an electromagnetic pulse-caused blackout could be preventable, but experts warn the civilian world is still not ready.

Peter Vincent Pry, executive director of the Task Force on National and Homeland Security and director of the U.S. Nuclear Strategy Forum, both congressional advisory boards, said the technology to avoid disaster from electromagnetic pulses exists, and upgrading the nation's electrical grid is financially viable.

"The problem is not the technology," Pry said. "We know how to protect against it. It's not the money, it doesn't cost that much. The problem is the politics. It always seems to be the politics that gets in the way."

He said the more officials plan, the lower the estimated cost gets.

"If you do a smart plan - the Congressional EMP Commission estimated that you could protect the whole country for about $2 billion," Pry told Watchdog.org. "That's what we give away in foreign aid to Pakistan every year." "

[Innkeeper]

You know if your like many people who keep an older spare fridge in your garage just so you do not have to always go back in the house for something cold, keeping spare batteries an, hand held radio's and other such devices in it will protect them from an EMP , the fridge is basically a faraday cage. Just make sure it is plugged in.

[rice paddy daddy]

EMP is a very real threat to the electrical grid. But an even bigger threat is the computerized system that runs it being hacked.
It would be catastrophic, according to what I have read.

[Eagle1803]

The Documentary American Blackout was Aired last year on....... I think it was the discovery channel.

A very realistic Movie on what would happen if the grid was hacked...the media wouldn't even talk about it.

[Inor]

EMP is a very real threat to the electrical grid. But an even bigger threat is the computerized system that runs it being hacked.
It would be catastrophic, according to what I have read.

My concern is not that a hostile group attacks our IT infrastructure all at once. Rather it is that they infiltrate and attack it slowly and go undetected for a significant time.

Larry Bond wrote a novel about such a scenario back in the early 90's. I think it was called "The Enemy Within". The technology in the story is obviously very dated now, but the threat is there now more than ever and it is damn spooky.

[Conundrum99]

There are many threats from EMP, there is a natural occurring (solar) that would randomly occur and affect many areas. There is EMP from a nuclear event and now it appears that they have been weaponized EMP, both in large scale and localized. Almost hand held, not long before Swat teams are using these for raids. I have several faraday cages for my electronics. It's simple as a old microwave with the plug removed.

[BugMan]

I just sat through my first CERT training class. My county has done absolutely nothing to prepare for an EMP type event. "The taxpayers aren't willing to pay for this sort of costly perpetration." Are all EMP preps expensive? I don't think so.

[BugMan]

Read "One Second After"

[BugMan]

http://youtu.be/D88qGil4lBk

[BugMan]

This is the video they shared at the beginning of the class. http://youtu.be/eQysbTJbQ1w

Seriously.

[pheniox17]

another emp thread....

but now your aware of it, what are you going to do about it?? Lol

on a lighter note, a large scale emp attack maybe a way to get society back where it was 20+ years ago... parents actually have to be parents, that's a worry

[big paul]

[QUOTE=pheniox17) a large scale emp attack maybe a way to get society back where it was 20+ years ago... [/QUOTE]

20 years...is that all? it'd put us all back to at least pre industrial times....just imagine all those things you need electricity for!!! it'd more likely put us back to the 16th or 17th Century.

[Pauls]

All of industry would be shut down - from a lack of fuel which is pumped electrically whether you are talking natural gas, gasoline, diesel, propane, or jet fuel. Coal is harvested and transported with fuels that use electricity to pump them. That means no deliveries of produce, no canned goods, no processed foods of any kind. no intensive care, X-rays, ultrasound or magnetic imaging. No city water or sewage because it all runs on electric pumps. Radio may be available from a few stations across the US but it would be limited because of a lack of fuel for their emergency generators. The cooling ponds of nuclear reactors will eventually lose power and then they will burn from the heat of radioactive decay - worse than Fukushima.

[pheniox17]

20 years...is that all? it'd put us all back to at least pre industrial times....just imagine all those things you need electricity for!!! it'd more likely put us back to the 16th or 17th Century.

that was a dig about Facebook and TV and other medias that control our social life...

if someone turned the big technology switch off, it will be like the late 19th early 20th century, with a modern twist, not all technology will be rendered useless... but a large bulk will be

[big paul]

that was a dig about Facebook and TV and other medias that control our social life...

if someone turned the big technology switch off, it will be like the late 19th early 20th century, with a modern twist, not all technology will be rendered useless... but a large bulk will be

I wish you luck with that, in the UK the opinion of serious preppers is that we will be looking at somewhere between 1500-1700 in terms of lifestyle, no electric, no petrol or diesel, no imports, all food grown by hand locally, no chemicals, no man made fertilisers, personal transport will be a horse or donkey if you'r lucky, most will be on foot.

[pheniox17]

I wish you luck with that, in the UK the opinion of serious preppers is that we will be looking at somewhere between 1500-1700 in terms of lifestyle, no electric, no petrol or diesel, no imports, all food grown by hand locally, no chemicals, no man made fertilisers, personal transport will be a horse or donkey if you'r lucky, most will be on foot.

a lot of advancements came around the 1900s reliance on power/washing machines, vacuum cleaners are a 20th century luxury

oh hate to say this Australia wasn't even herd of in the 15-1700s :p and locally it will almost be as you have described

but I cant see a world wide emp event killing every technology advancement made over the past 100 years, and to be honest I don't want to find out... (through experience)

oh unlike the 1700s modern firearms exist, explosives, building techniques, and other advances in technology that a emp won't effect, the lifestyle may reflect the dark ages/pre industrial age, but only if the post apocalyptic society accepts that is the only way...

and steam will make a huge comeback in transportation :P

[big paul]

it all depends, modern society at least in the UK has lost ALL its connections to earlier lifestyles and is very reliant on technology including electric and having stuff readily available, if and when any kind of SHTF event happened it will all fall apart very quickly(the Autumn riots in London a few years ago showed us that, however this would be small in comparison to a country wide event), without power no fridges or freezers will work so food will quickly spoil, no petrol or diesel as the petrol pumps wont work, no mains water or sewage as again this is electrically pumped....so on and so forth....I have a list of stuff that wont work when the power goes off but I wont bore you with it!)

[Notsoyoung]

The estimates that I have read said that the United States would return to a technology level of the mid 1800's
During a Government hearing the testimony was that after 1 year of the incident 90-95% of the population of the U.S. would be dead from starvation, medical issues/diseases, and civil unrest. The large transformers that are used in the grid system take about 1 year to produce and are manufactured in China. The State of Maine has passed a law and is in the process of taking the steps to protect their grid systems from an EMP.

[big paul]

The estimates that I have read said that the United States would return to a technology level of the mid 1800's
During a Government hearing the testimony was that after 1 year of the incident 90-95% of the population of the U.S. would be dead from starvation, medical issues/diseases, and civil unrest.

very similar to what is being said in the uk,the 18TH Century was the technology level mentioned over here so late 1700s. 90-95% "die off" has also been mentioned here.

[Notsoyoung]

I think what some people fail to realize is that there would be a total collapse of logistics and of personal knowledge. By that I mean that if you want to make anything, where are you going to get the materials to do so, and who is going to provide those materials? Let me give you an example: You want to start a steam powered whatever. Who is going to dig the coal? Who is going to move the coal to your location? Who knows how to make the parts you need? How do you power the machines you need to make the parts? Who knows how to put all the parts together? Who is going to build/maintain railway tracks? Who is going to mill the wood you need for the ties? Who is going to transport the ties? Remember, 90-85 percent of the population will be dead. Any type of economy that develops will be localized for a very long time.

[big paul]

I think what some people fail to realize is that there would be a total collapse of logistics and of personal knowledge. By that I mean that if you want to make anything, where are you going to get the materials to do so, and who is going to provide those materials? Let me give you an example: You want to start a steam powered whatever. Who is going to dig the coal? Who is going to move the coal to your location? Who knows how to make the parts you need? How do you power the machines you need to make the parts? Who knows how to put all the parts together? Who is going to build/maintain railway tracks? Who is going to mill the wood you need for the ties? Who is going to transport the ties? Remember, 90-85 percent of the population will be dead. Any type of economy that develops will be localized for a very long time.

at last! somebody's got it! well done.

[pheniox17]

no argument about the death toll, but to dismiss all technology and going back to a time where pitchforks were the weapon of choice is a little out there

I just can't see that time of lifestyle been the way its going to be...

most infrastructure will be non functional... (so I agree there)

I can see the civil and society issues that will rise

but people do know how to fix things including fridges and also create electricity... I just can't see any village/rebuilt community not making efforts to bring some form of luxury to the people living there (a way to maintain power)

but in point, a world wide emp event, will kill a lot of people, I just doubt it will render all electronic devices useless (I would bet close to 90% of all unprotected equipment would be dead) but not the magic 100% that is assumed and most electronic components should be salvageable (to those that know what they are doing)

also the last effect, people thrive "normality" its in our nature, people will group together, like you guys expect (pre industrial age society) but will have a modern twist, that's what I'm trying to explain, the modern twist, you will see working computers, working lights, working radios, working fridges, working freezers, but they will be few and far between, the guys that can repair that stuff will have some going... and use that knowledge to secure their place in the elite class of the future society....

20 or 30 years if the ability to produce new electronic components is lost (tube or semi conductors) then the picture that you guys have painted is closer to reality, I just have a little for faith in humans than that (don't get me wrong, if I'm wrong I'm still setting myself up to get by without technology, but I'm also not buying into when it happens, the past 100 years of advancement will be lost in the ages)

[pheniox17]

not so young you don't need coal to produce steam.. its just more efficient than wood...

[SoCal92057]

If the grid was down, medical care would revert to what it was before modern medicines and machines. As medical supplies ran out there would be no replacements available and even a simple x-ray would be impossible.

[big paul]

if the die off was as large as expected, there wouldn't be anyone left to repair stuff or make new stuff, we really would be back in the "dark ages". and whats the point in repairing fridges if their is no electricity? or even no power grid? why waste your time in fixing a freezer if all the transformers in the power grid are blown to hell.

[Pauls]

A huge solar flare or a direct hit with a Coronal Mass Ejection could take out all the electrical transmission in the world. Generating stations - of all kinds - transmission lines - transformers - both large and small and any appliances connected to the grid when it surged to extinction. Without electricity you don't have fuel, so no transportation and no manufacturing, no metal production, no mass farming, so no food once stored food is gone or spoils. The EMP won't kill anyone - but the lack of support will. Water is pumped using large electric pumps - so is sewage. Fuel is delivered across country in pipelines pushed by large electric pumps. the industry all over the world is powered by electricity - just like our homes. No power means no utilities, food, water, and you are left with what you have at your disposal.

[machinejjh]

Most will perish, but whoever is left will find ways to work around issues. Human ingenuity will triumph over time.