What to do when police refuse to help

[GMFuzy]

I originally posted this on sb, but it got deleted By an angry mod.

Still feel the need to share.

Last saturday afternoon my family and I were walking home from the park around the corner from our house. When a guy on a motorcycle races up our street ( very quiet historical park area) 35-40 mph cuts off a car a pops a wheelie in front of it almost not landing- swerving and coming very close to a 2 year old on a bike.
So I yell " hey! Slow it down" and the biker pulls a u turn comes back towards me flips his visor up and throws his hands out and says
" what are you gonna do about it buddy? - you think you're a cop faggot?"
So I step into the street in front of his bike and say
" dude there are kids out here you don't need to be poppin wheelies"
Right then the guy driving the car he cut off ran up on me shoving me and yelling
" you think you're an effin cop faggot?" I effin beat your faggot ass"
I look to him a say
" chill dude, Im just telling him to slow it down"
The guy from the car says " who the eff are you? "
I say " look man, my family live here and that's not crap you do around kids and a park"
The biker says
" I didn't even get 6 inches off the ground that shit isn't even dangerous faggot" you're gonna get beat faggot I'll effin kill you"

So I tell my wife to take the boys home and I walk them around the corner and take my phone out and photograph their plates, and dial 911, mean while they are yelling and threatening to kill me.
So I head back home while on the phone with dispatch and the driver of the car follows me back down the alleyway back to my house.
He pulls a sog auto assist knife and flicks it out and says " what now faggot"
So I pull a little tiny Kiri dashi from my change pocket and Lunge at him telling him to back the eff up!

2 of my male neighbors came out then and the dude put the knife back in his pocket.
My neighbors wife asked if I wanted her to call the cops and I said I was on the phone with them right then.
Here's the crazy part
Then the biker pulls up in the other dudes Volvo and gets out threatening me.
So I tell my wife to grab the 12 gauge and I tell them they are under citizens arrest.
My other neighbor came out and told the driver to back it up and he yells
" thats my little bro, that faggot is effin dead."
He then starts to pull his knife again but I pulled mine faster and he freaked and says
" sorry you just ran up on my bro and and ... I told him not to be doin that trick shit"
He then tells his brother to get back in the car and I say.
" this is your last chance get in the car and get the eff out of here fool"
..... So they drive away.
I will post the second part now.

[hawgrider]

No concealed carry license? Sounds like when he pulled the knife it would have been a good shoot!

[juskom95]

Unfortunately, some idiots like this think they are in charge because they can browbeat people. Honestly, unless they are in front of my home, I don't say anything anymore to avoid legal issues. In front of my home, I do say something.

I'm with hawgrider on this one, if they had pulled a knife like that, my sidearm would have come out. (And is has for situations like that.)


Of course, one way to reduce speeders, was with my purchase of a CVPI and placing it almost hidden around the corner of the street.

[BucketBack]

http://www.reidstudio.com/images/illo/shoots_scores.jpg

[GMFuzy]

Roughly 5 minutes go by and the dispatcher tells me to put all the weapons inside before the officers arrive ( my wife never got the 12 gauge) the first officer shows up and he's an LT.
I tell him what happened and show him the pics of the plates and notify him that we also have cell phone video and our home surveillance video.
Then 4 more officers show up and one talks to my neighbors and tells them to go inside. The LT says they are going to send someone to " find out what's goin on"
A few minutes later another cop pulls up and gets out shaking his finger at me saying " you are the one who pulled the knife" put your hands on the fence.
I look at him confused and I say what?
The LT tells him to "cool it"
Then the cop says " the other guy doesn't even have a knife, i asked his brother too"

My wife says, " yeah cause nobody has ever lied for their brother before" - " did you even search him?"
The rude cop says " do you want to get searched? Did I search you?"

He then looks to me and says " are you stupid or something, you must be stupid to try to fight somebody with a knife"
- the Lt tells him to stop.
The rude cop then rolls his eyes looking around to the other officers and says " I don't think he understands, it must not be in his mental capacity"
So I say " I do understand that your are being super condescending, and have no idea what is going on because you just got here.
So the rude cops says " are you a vet?"
I say yes, and he laughs and says " figures" so again the Lt tells him to shut up.
I say" wtf is that supposed to mean?"
The Lt looks to me and says I guess what he was trying to say is you should have just waited for us.
I say " these guys threatened to kill me in my own driveway, I'm going to defend myself"
And he says well, we talked to them and I guess you can mayBe file an order of protection.
I say " I want them arrested"
And the Lt says " the other officers don't really feel the need to do anything further"
The rude cop then says if you want me to arrest them then I am going to arrest you too"
The Lt again tells him to hush and the Lt says you get a copy of the report in a few days.
I look to the cops and I say " thanks for coming out I guess"
And the Lt says enjoy your weekend with you family.
So I say you guys too, except for " rude cop" - you can go eff yourself"
And rude cops says as he's getting in his car " I hope your house doesn't burn down"

[GMFuzy]

No concealed carry license? Sounds like when he pulled the knife it would have been a good shoot!
No I don't yet have a cc, but I have been open carrying.
Turns out the moron brothers are 28 and 39 and still live with their mom right around the corner.
And here's even more weird stuff,
Back in February, a guy broke into the toolbox of my wife's truck and tried to hotwire my car or something ( the ignition was totally ripped out) he also looked right into the camera before ripping the floodlight off of the wall.
As I was making a DVD of the incident saturday I remembered his face, but the cops don't really care and I should " maybe email it to crime stoppers "
Lol what a joke.

[hawgrider]

Roughly 5 minutes go by and the dispatcher tells me to put all the weapons inside before the officers arrive ( my wife never got the 12 gauge) the first officer shows up and he's an LT.
I tell him what happened and show him the pics of the plates and notify him that we also have cell phone video and our home surveillance video.
Then 4 more officers show up and one talks to my neighbors and tells them to go inside. The LT says they are going to send someone to " find out what's goin on"
A few minutes later another cop pulls up and gets out shaking his finger at me saying " you are the one who pulled the knife" put your hands on the fence.
I look at him confused and I say what?
The LT tells him to "cool it"
Then the cop says " the other guy doesn't even have a knife, i asked his brother too"

My wife says, " yeah cause nobody has ever lied for their brother before" - " did you even search him?"
The rude cop says " do you want to get searched? Did I search you?"

He then looks to me and says " are you stupid or something, you must be stupid to try to fight somebody with a knife"
- the Lt tells him to stop.
The rude cop then rolls his eyes looking around to the other officers and says " I don't think he understands, it must not be in his mental capacity"
So I say " I do understand that your are being super condescending, and have no idea what is going on because you just got here.
So the rude cops says " are you a vet?"
I say yes, and he laughs and says " figures" so again the Lt tells him to shut up.
I say" wtf is that supposed to mean?"
The Lt looks to me and says I guess what he was trying to say is you should have just waited for us.
I say " these guys threatened to kill me in my own driveway, I'm going to defend myself"
And he says well, we talked to them and I guess you can mayBe file an order of protection.
I say " I want them arrested"
And the Lt says " the other officers don't really feel the need to do anything further"
The rude cop then says if you want me to arrest them then I am going to arrest you too"
The Lt again tells him to hush and the Lt says you get a copy of the report in a few days.
I look to the cops and I say " thanks for coming out I guess"
And the Lt says enjoy your weekend with you family.
So I say you guys too, except for " rude cop" - you can go eff yourself"
And rude cops says as he's getting in his car " I hope your house doesn't burn down"


To protect and serve is just a saying. There is no way they can or will protect you. Call response time will never be quick enough. So all thats left is the serve part of that slogan.... and the serve part is nothing more than them writing a report if your lucky enough to even get them to come out and do that.

PS: Id have that rude cops head! File a compliant that he threatened to burn your house down just for starters.

[Sparkyprep]

In my opinion, and it aint worth much, my sidearm would have come out as soon as he pulled the knife. Wifes sidearm would come out too, as she paced sideways to take a flanking position. Kids run home and call police.

[juskom95]

Roughly 5 minutes go by and the dispatcher tells me to put all the weapons inside before the officers arrive ( my wife never got the 12 gauge) the first officer shows up and he's an LT.
I tell him what happened and show him the pics of the plates and notify him that we also have cell phone video and our home surveillance video.
Then 4 more officers show up and one talks to my neighbors and tells them to go inside. The LT says they are going to send someone to " find out what's goin on"
A few minutes later another cop pulls up and gets out shaking his finger at me saying " you are the one who pulled the knife" put your hands on the fence.
I look at him confused and I say what?
The LT tells him to "cool it"
Then the cop says " the other guy doesn't even have a knife, i asked his brother too"

My wife says, " yeah cause nobody has ever lied for their brother before" - " did you even search him?"
The rude cop says " do you want to get searched? Did I search you?"

He then looks to me and says " are you stupid or something, you must be stupid to try to fight somebody with a knife"
- the Lt tells him to stop.
The rude cop then rolls his eyes looking around to the other officers and says " I don't think he understands, it must not be in his mental capacity"
So I say " I do understand that your are being super condescending, and have no idea what is going on because you just got here.
So the rude cops says " are you a vet?"
I say yes, and he laughs and says " figures" so again the Lt tells him to shut up.
I say" wtf is that supposed to mean?"
The Lt looks to me and says I guess what he was trying to say is you should have just waited for us.
I say " these guys threatened to kill me in my own driveway, I'm going to defend myself"
And he says well, we talked to them and I guess you can mayBe file an order of protection.
I say " I want them arrested"
And the Lt says " the other officers don't really feel the need to do anything further"
The rude cop then says if you want me to arrest them then I am going to arrest you too"
The Lt again tells him to hush and the Lt says you get a copy of the report in a few days.
I look to the cops and I say " thanks for coming out I guess"
And the Lt says enjoy your weekend with you family.
So I say you guys too, except for " rude cop" - you can go eff yourself"
And rude cops says as he's getting in his car " I hope your house doesn't burn down"

From my own experiences, I'm guessing the "Rude Cop," was young and/or new/inexperienced?

Especially if you have video of the altercation, to just be arresting you when it is a he said/he said situation . . .



On another note, I have ran into an increasing amount of LEO's who have a distaste for veterans in general.

[juskom95]

In my opinion, and it aint worth much, my sidearm would have come out as soon as he pulled the knife. Wifes sidearm would come out too, as she paced sideways to take a flanking position. Kids run home and call police.

One thing that helps, I have a CCTV system up and know its sight-lines. So if that were to happen, I would make sure the incident were all recorded.

[hawgrider]

From my own experiences, I'm guessing the "Rude Cop," was young and/or new/inexperienced?

Especially if you have video of the altercation, to just be arresting you when it is a he said/he said situation . . .



On another note, I have ran into an increasing amount of LEO's who have a distaste for veterans in general.

Whats up with that? Why would cops hate Veterans?

[juskom95]

Whats up with that? Why would cops hate Veterans?

My guess? Ego.

Veterans, generally, are not the type to be cowed by someone in a uniform. Just as another officer is not going to have the same reaction as a non-experienced citizen. Vets are also of the habit to deal with a problem (stand up to the thug breaking windows/into houses) versus running inside and calling 911 in a panicky voice.

I have never had an issue with the older/experienced officers, but it is seemingly becoming a trend with the new/young officers in the city departments. My interaction with them is next to never now and they have become more polite now that I have a CCTV system over the house.

[GMFuzy]

The rude cop was not young, although all of the other cops there were young ( 25 at most)
On sb , someone asked if he was " the big guy"
- he was the big guy
Dealing with cops in the past, I have found it hit or miss on whether they give vets crap.
I worked for catholic charities and a homeless veterans program for a number of years, and have witnessed cops getting overly aggressive with veterans on more than one occasion.
Seems some of them are just convinced that all vets are a threat and get " agitated easily"- or some bs
Personally I haven't really experienced it, the only time I've ever had issues about being a veteran was when some dbag San Diego cop accused me of being a liar and said I was not a veteran and yelled at me about stolen valor until I showed the responding backup my VA card that says " service connected"

[juskom95]

I worked for catholic charities and a homeless veterans program for a number of years, and have witnessed cops getting overly aggressive with veterans on more than one occasion.
Seems some of them are just convinced that all vets are a threat and get " agitated easily"- or some bs
Personally I haven't really experienced it, the only time I've ever had issues about being a veteran was when some dbag San Diego cop accused me of being a liar and said I was not a veteran and yelled at me about stolen valor until I showed the responding backup my VA card that says " service connected"

The "Rambo Phenomenon," maybe? Everyone has seen how veterans are perceived in Hollywood.

[hawgrider]

The "Rambo Phenomenon," maybe? Everyone has seen how veterans are perceived in Hollywood.

Billy badass. I write, make and am the law. What you doing in my town boy!

[Camel923]

Get cc insurance and a permit to carry. Your going to need both with jackasses like that on your police force.

[Mister Mills]

Keep your guns holstered and inside, if you can; but if the moment comes when you must shoot, then shoot. Get a 1/2 gallon glass jug, and practice tossing it in your yard. Work on aiming it at a spot where you have a 2 liter plastic bottle, and try to knock it over. When you can do that, your aim is fine.

If the punk comes back, toss it in front of his wheel, and let him run over it. There is nothing about it, that can be solved with talk, so be prepared for action.

[Sarge7402]

I originally posted this on sb, but it got deleted By an angry mod.

Still feel the need to share.

Last saturday afternoon my family and I were walking home from the park around the corner from our house. When a guy on a motorcycle races up our street ( very quiet historical park area) 35-40 mph cuts off a car a pops a wheelie in front of it almost not landing- swerving and coming very close to a 2 year old on a bike.
So I yell " hey! Slow it down" and the biker pulls a u turn comes back towards me flips his visor up and throws his hands out and says
" what are you gonna do about it buddy? - you think you're a cop faggot?"
So I step into the street in front of his bike and say
" dude there are kids out here you don't need to be poppin wheelies"
Right then the guy driving the car he cut off ran up on me shoving me and yelling
" you think you're an effin cop faggot?" I effin beat your faggot ass"
I look to him a say
" chill dude, Im just telling him to slow it down"
The guy from the car says " who the eff are you? "
I say " look man, my family live here and that's not crap you do around kids and a park"
The biker says
" I didn't even get 6 inches off the ground that shit isn't even dangerous faggot" you're gonna get beat faggot I'll effin kill you"

So I tell my wife to take the boys home and I walk them around the corner and take my phone out and photograph their plates, and dial 911, mean while they are yelling and threatening to kill me.
So I head back home while on the phone with dispatch and the driver of the car follows me back down the alleyway back to my house.
He pulls a sog auto assist knife and flicks it out and says " what now faggot"
So I pull a little tiny Kiri dashi from my change pocket and Lunge at him telling him to back the eff up!

2 of my male neighbors came out then and the dude put the knife back in his pocket.
My neighbors wife asked if I wanted her to call the cops and I said I was on the phone with them right then.
Here's the crazy part
Then the biker pulls up in the other dudes Volvo and gets out threatening me.
So I tell my wife to grab the 12 gauge and I tell them they are under citizens arrest.
My other neighbor came out and told the driver to back it up and he yells
" thats my little bro, that faggot is effin dead."
He then starts to pull his knife again but I pulled mine faster and he freaked and says
" sorry you just ran up on my bro and and ... I told him not to be doin that trick shit"
He then tells his brother to get back in the car and I say.
" this is your last chance get in the car and get the eff out of here fool"
..... So they drive away.
I will post the second part now.

First you get confrontational with two folks you know nothing about with your wife and kids watching on the side lines.

Second you decide to get up in the two of their faces on an issue that is a police function.

Third from all of the F bombs being thrown around none of the participants were acting like rational adults. Looks more like each shoving his weight around.

Fourth he supposedly removed a knife from his pocket, so you drew yours and lunged at him with your's. You don't say he mde any threatening gestures other than talking about kicking your azz around the corner.

Fifth you really decide to take the law into your hands with "a citizens arrest" and drag your wife into the fray by telling her to get the 12 gage.

If after listening to your tirade (instead of just reading it ) and hearing that you lunged at the dude with your knife, I think the cop should have hooked you up for ADW - Assault with a Deadly Weapon.

Don't let the others on this forum convince you that you were 100% in the right. If I were you, I'd go on back to the VA and have them review my PTSD meds and see if they can't help you with your "problem"

[BucketBack]

Billy badass. I write, make and am the law. What you doing in my town boy!
"BOY"

[BucketBack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NelBNtNm8l0

[Sparkyprep]

First you get confrontational with two folks you know nothing about with your wife and kids watching on the side lines.

Second you decide to get up in the two of their faces on an issue that is a police function.

Third from all of the F bombs being thrown around none of the participants were acting like rational adults. Looks more like each shoving his weight around.

Fourth he supposedly removed a knife from his pocket, so you drew yours and lunged at him with your's. You don't say he mde any threatening gestures other than talking about kicking your azz around the corner.

Fifth you really decide to take the law into your hands with "a citizens arrest" and drag your wife into the fray by telling her to get the 12 gage.

If after listening to your tirade (instead of just reading it ) and hearing that you lunged at the dude with your knife, I think the cop should have hooked you up for ADW - Assault with a Deadly Weapon.

Don't let the others on this forum convince you that you were 100% in the right. If I were you, I'd go on back to the VA and have them review my PTSD meds and see if they can't help you with your "problem"

Spoken just like a typical cop with self-esteem issues.

[Unclefred]

First you get confrontational with two folks you know nothing about with your wife and kids watching on the side lines.

Second you decide to get up in the two of their faces on an issue that is a police function.

Third from all of the F bombs being thrown around none of the participants were acting like rational adults. Looks more like each shoving his weight around.

Fourth he supposedly removed a knife from his pocket, so you drew yours and lunged at him with your's. You don't say he mde any threatening gestures other than talking about kicking your azz around the corner.

Fifth you really decide to take the law into your hands with "a citizens arrest" and drag your wife into the fray by telling her to get the 12 gage.

If after listening to your tirade (instead of just reading it ) and hearing that you lunged at the dude with your knife, I think the cop should have hooked you up for ADW - Assault with a Deadly Weapon.

Don't let the others on this forum convince you that you were 100% in the right. If I were you, I'd go on back to the VA and have them review my PTSD meds and see if they can't help you with your "problem"

I'm with you Sarge. He called the cops, not the other guys. How is it a cop problem? It's a guy with a chip on his shoulder that thought he was tough but he wasn't tough enough. Yeah, that's what I said.

[GMFuzy]

First you get confrontational with two folks you know nothing about with your wife and kids watching on the side lines.

Second you decide to get up in the two of their faces on an issue that is a police function.

Third from all of the F bombs being thrown around none of the participants were acting like rational adults. Looks more like each shoving his weight around.

Fourth he supposedly removed a knife from his pocket, so you drew yours and lunged at him with your's. You don't say he mde any threatening gestures other than talking about kicking your azz around the corner.

Fifth you really decide to take the law into your hands with "a citizens arrest" and drag your wife into the fray by telling her to get the 12 gage.

If after listening to your tirade (instead of just reading it ) and hearing that you lunged at the dude with your knife, I think the cop should have hooked you up for ADW - Assault with a Deadly Weapon.

Don't let the others on this forum convince you that you were 100% in the right. If I were you, I'd go on back to the VA and have them review my PTSD meds and see if they can't help you with your "problem"

Wow seems you didn't read the post and jumped to conclusions like the jackass cop in the story.
Btw, I think "YOU" should get your meds checked- because if they mess you up to the point where you are not willing to defend your own family then you are rather useless.
These guys came at me in the street, then followed me home with a knife.
And the responding officers agreed I was completely within my rights pulling my knife.

[hawgrider]

Cops are nothing more than ticket and report writers. They cannot stop or prevent a attack by punks and thugs.

Damn near every cop I have known and I have known and still work around many have a higher than though attitude. Only a handful I've known have not let that tin star go to their heads.

[Ricekila]

My 2 cents & a fact --

On the side of any cop car in the country --

"To serve and protect"

It is & always was --- "a lie" --

Unless theres a specified court order -- related to a court appearance -- they "DON'T PROTECT" --

And the only thing they serve is warrants --

The end --

[hawgrider]

My 2 cents & a fact --

On the side of any cop car in the country --

"To serve and protect"

It is & always was --- "a lie" --

Unless theres a specified court order -- related to a court appearance -- they "DON'T PROTECT" --

And the only thing they serve is warrants --

The end --

Thread over you win! :closed:

[Sarge7402]

Wow seems you didn't read the post and jumped to conclusions like the jackass cop in the story.
Btw, I think "YOU" should get your meds checked- because if they mess you up to the point where you are not willing to defend your own family then you are rather useless.
These guys came at me in the street, then followed me home with a knife.
And the responding officers agreed I was completely within my rights pulling my knife.

A. I did read your complete post and waited quite a while before writing.

B. As for defending your family, it does not seem that you cared much for them as you did not get them to safety before you began your confrontation of them

C. Unless you failed to fully describe the incident where spunky number 1 pulled a knife out, any cop and reasonable person would see that you pulling yours and lunging towards spunky number 1 is the act of an aggressor and it's your rear end that belongs behind bars.

With regards to the motto preserve and protect, their job is not to protect you - individually - but the community as a whole by taking folks that have committed crimes off the street.

Just because someone belongs to MS-13 doesn't mean that he should be locked up and the key thrown away. He's actually got to do something wrong before an arrest can be made.

[Unclefred]

A. I did read your complete post and waited quite a while before writing.

B. As for defending your family, it does not seem that you cared much for them as you did not get them to safety before you began your confrontation of them

C. Unless you failed to fully describe the incident where spunky number 1 pulled a knife out, any cop and reasonable person would see that you pulling yours and lunging towards spunky number 1 is the act of an aggressor and it's your rear end that belongs behind bars.

With regards to the motto preserve and protect, their job is not to protect you - individually - but the community as a whole by taking folks that have committed crimes off the street.

Just because someone belongs to MS-13 doesn't mean that he should be locked up and the key thrown away. He's actually got to do something wrong before an arrest can be made.

I think fuzzy needs to grow some on his nuts. You are right afaiac, he was the aggressor as you noted, not concerned about his kids, but in being a loud mouth confronter who acted aggressively with his knife, in front of his kids. Dipshit.

[GMFuzy]

A. I did read your complete post and waited quite a while before writing.

B. As for defending your family, it does not seem that you cared much for them as you did not get them to safety before you began your confrontation of them

C. Unless you failed to fully describe the incident where spunky number 1 pulled a knife out, any cop and reasonable person would see that you pulling yours and lunging towards spunky number 1 is the act of an aggressor and it's your rear end that belongs behind bars.

With regards to the motto preserve and protect, their job is not to protect you - individually - but the community as a whole by taking folks that have committed crimes off the street.

Just because someone belongs to MS-13 doesn't mean that he should be locked up and the key thrown away. He's actually got to do something wrong before an arrest can be made.

And... Again sarge you are hallucinating and making up some crazy dialogue.
Did you read my post?

[GMFuzy]

I think fuzzy needs to grow some on his nuts. You are right afaiac, he was the aggressor as you noted, not concerned about his kids, but in being a loud mouth confronter who acted aggressively with his knife, in front of his kids. Dipshit.
To " clarify"
Read the post

[Sarge7402]

And... Again sarge you are hallucinating and making up some crazy dialogue.
Did you read my post?

Perhaps it is you that needs to go back and read your post. I'm not the one that is living in a dream world.

Did you or did you not remove your family from the area before you began your confrontation of these two individuals? Seems from what you wrote that you immediately confronted them while your family was still in the area.

Secondly you make no mention of skippy number 1 making any aggressive move towards you once he'd displayed the knife.

Talking threats does not constitute justification for you to draw your blade and lunging after him. That's ADW in just about any jurisdiction and you should consider yourself very lucky that the local cops didn't lock you up.

But now you are bragging about this criminal act in a forum that can be read by visitors. Wonder when one of those cops reads your post remembers the incident and comes to your house with a warrant.

ADW is a felony - to which you have confessed openly to all readers of this forum - and probably has a 4 - 5 year period in which a warrant of arrest can be obtained.

If I were RW I'd dredge up your profile info and hand it over to the police in your home town.

[Unclefred]

To " clarify"
Read the post

I worked 28 years with professional victims like you. Both as a treatment staff and as custody staff. I saw you coming for miles. Stop playing victim. It will free you and yours.

[Sparkyprep]

Perhaps it is you that needs to go back and read your post. I'm not the one that is living in a dream world.

Did you or did you not remove your family from the area before you began your confrontation of these two individuals? Seems from what you wrote that you immediately confronted them while your family was still in the area.

Secondly you make no mention of skippy number 1 making any aggressive move towards you once he'd displayed the knife.

Talking threats does not constitute justification for you to draw your blade and lunging after him. That's ADW in just about any jurisdiction and you should consider yourself very lucky that the local cops didn't lock you up.

But now you are bragging about this criminal act in a forum that can be read by visitors. Wonder when one of those cops reads your post remembers the incident and comes to your house with a warrant.

ADW is a felony - to which you have confessed openly to all readers of this forum - and probably has a 4 - 5 year period in which a warrant of arrest can be obtained.

If I were RW I'd dredge up your profile info and hand it over to the police in your home town.

Of course you would. You are a pro-ponant of a police state.

[hawgrider]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/6c6735ab546de999123e08aef4d96990/tumblr_mtx9ta1ZoX1s5q3dio1_400.gif

[juskom95]

Secondly you make no mention of skippy number 1 making any aggressive move towards you once he'd displayed the knife.

Talking threats does not constitute justification for you to draw your blade and lunging after him. That's ADW in just about any jurisdiction and you should consider yourself very lucky that the local cops didn't lock you up.
Wait, so you believe following someone back to their home after a verbal confrontation and drawing a knife on them in no way could be, or would be, considered a reasonable threat to the person? Did you even read the OP or did you view it through your 'Cop Lenses,' ?



So I tell my wife to take the boys home and I walk them around the corner and take my phone out and photograph their plates, and dial 911, mean while they are yelling and threatening to kill me.
So I head back home while on the phone with dispatch and the driver of the car follows me back down the alleyway back to my house.
He pulls a sog auto assist knife and flicks it out and says " what now faggot"
So I pull a little tiny Kiri dashi from my change pocket and Lunge at him telling him to back the eff up!


Sarge7402, I think you only read the part of the OP you wanted to. The 'punk,' followed the OP back to his home and pulled a knife first.


ADW is a felony - to which you have confessed openly to all readers of this forum - and probably has a 4 - 5 year period in which a warrant of arrest can be obtained.
Um . . . you know the officers already responded and did not arrest GMFuzy right? Not your place, I think your EGO is getting in the way a bit.


If I were RW I'd dredge up your profile info and hand it over to the police in your home town.
You are 'sounding,' like the thug officer out there giving others a bad name, you truly are. Your whole mantra has been "THE COPS ARE RIGHT!!!!!" and "CITIZENS SHOULD NEVER DEFEND THEMSELVES!!!!" Maybe you need to learn to take your ego down a bit?

[Sparkyprep]

I like how Sarge threw in that little bit about "PTSD meds". There is that bias against veterans, front and center. Hey Sarge, just because someone is a vet, doesnt automatically mean they should be medicated.

[juskom95]

I like how Sarge threw in that little bit about "PTSD meds". There is that bias against veterans, front and center. Hey Sarge, just because someone is a vet, doesnt automatically mean they should be medicated.

It goes back to the whole "Rambo," Hollywood stereotype. Vets generally have the attitude of defending themselves/family and/or pointing out when someone is putting them in danger rather than cowering and waiting on the police to arrive. Most officers are used to that attitude, of the 'cowering,' citizen that many get this preconceived notion that no one is allowed to do anything without permission.

We have problems in my neighborhood with speeders exactly like this, along with drug deals, robberies, home invasions etc. The metro police cannot be bothered to show up to an in progress break in but become indigent if a home owner takes action (like photographing license plates) to prevent it. I'm not talking about vigilantism here, but doing the small things like telling the thug to quit it instead of walking by, talking to someone you don't know walking down the sidewalk/parking in front of your house (not an interrogation, but a conversation) and so on.

I'm sure Sarge7402 is going to be back here before long, stating that we should all cower and wait for police to arrive instead of taking care of our neighborhood . . .

[Sarge7402]

Of course you would. You are a pro-ponant of a police state.

Hey Spark better get your facts straight. I'm not a proponent of a police state, however I do think the Cops suggestion that we lock all of you up (and let a judge decide who's story is more truthful) is what ought to have been done.

FYI I've been a Peace Officer for about as long as I was a Police Officer over the last 20 years.

[juskom95]

Hey Spark better get your facts straight. I'm not a proponent of a police state, however I do think the Cops suggestion that we lock all of you up (and let a judge decide who's story is more truthful) is what ought to have been done.
So wait, you believe that "LOCKING EVERYONE UP," is not a police state!? Huh.

Or maybe, now keep up as this is a radical approach to policing, we should trust the officer who was on scene and made the decision? I know this is a radical approach and not the norm, but still . . . .


FYI I've been a Peace Officer for about as long as I was a Police Officer over the last 20 years.
Yeah . . . and yet you wanted to get the OP's information to forward to their police department for a felony conviction/charge.

[Sarge7402]

Wait, so you believe following someone back to their home after a verbal confrontation and drawing a knife on them in no way could be, or would be, considered a reasonable threat to the person? Did you even read the OP or did you view it through your 'Cop Lenses,' ?



Sarge7402, I think you only read the part of the OP you wanted to. The 'punk,' followed the OP back to his home and pulled a knife first.


Um . . . you know the officers already responded and did not arrest GMFuzy right? Not your place, I think your EGO is getting in the way a bit.


You are 'sounding,' like the thug officer out there giving others a bad name, you truly are. Your whole mantra has been "THE COPS ARE RIGHT!!!!!" and "CITIZENS SHOULD NEVER DEFEND THEMSELVES!!!!" Maybe you need to learn to take your ego down a bit?

Actually I'd be willing to bet that FZy didn't tell the cops responding that he'd lunged towards the guy that had just drawn a knife but was not making any threatening moves toward him.

As for defending one's self, we'd all better understand that if we're the ones to begin a confrontation (like fzy confronting the biker) and don't do anything major to deescalate the situation then we have a much harder time proving self defense in a case of a loud mouth with a knife in his hands standing at the end of one's driveway when instead of simply drawing one of our own and standing our ground and take the fight to loud mouth.

Tell you what, why not send this to Mas Ayob and let him give his two cents worth on it.

And like I told sparky, I think the cops idea of locking all parties up and letting a judge sort it out makes a whole lot of sense.

And as for My Ego getting it's azz up in the air, I'll bet the local PD's decision on who to arrest would be different based on Fzy's statement that he lunged as skippy #1 with his knife.

That's tanamount to an admission of guilt

[hawgrider]

http://33.media.tumblr.com/538cf050221ae2e9b1a778ac229fc3b9/tumblr_nibyopNy7d1qdlh1io1_500.gif

[juskom95]

Actually I'd be willing to bet that FZy didn't tell the cops responding that he'd lunged towards the guy that had just drawn a knife but was not making any threatening moves toward him.
So following someone to their home and drawing a deadly weapon is in no way a threat? Interesting. What would you do as an officer if someone followed you from a traffic stop, to your home and drew a knife on you? Talk nicely?


As for defending one's self, we'd all better understand that if we're the ones to begin a confrontation (like fzy confronting the biker) and don't do anything major to deescalate the situation then we have a much harder time proving self defense in a case of a loud mouth with a knife in his hands standing at the end of one's driveway when instead of simply drawing one of our own and standing our ground and take the fight to loud mouth.
Telling someone to slow down is not the same as saying "I'm going to beat your ass!" You know the difference, you're just tyring to push the whole "COPS ARE THE ONLY ONES ALLOWED TO USE FORCE," mindset like so many other officers.


And like I told sparky, I think the cops idea of locking all parties up and letting a judge sort it out makes a whole lot of sense.
He was just detaining the OP . . .


And as for My Ego getting it's azz up in the air, I'll bet the local PD's decision on who to arrest would be different based on Fzy's statement that he lunged as skippy #1 with his knife.

That's tanamount to an admission of guilt

I love how you're defending the aggressor here. Wonder why so many are losing trust in officers? Read your responses, that's why. The OP had someone follow him back to his home and threaten him, and you want to arrest him? Guess what? its not against the law to tell someone to stop breaking the law, none whatsoever. If you're been a LEO as long as you claim, you know that 'words,' would NEVER justify they biker's user of deadly force against the OP, so why are you defending it so hard? Why?

Why do you continually ignore the biker's escalation of force? Is it because that would destroy your narrative? I'm thinking that's the case.

[Kfilly]

So wait, you believe that "LOCKING EVERYONE UP," is not a police state!? Huh.

Or maybe, now keep up as this is a radical approach to policing, we should trust the officer who was on scene and made the decision? I know this is a radical approach and not the norm, but still . . . .


Yeah . . . and yet you wanted to get the OP's information to forward to their police department for a felony conviction/charge.

Proven guilty before assumed innoncent must have been what the Founders meant about due process. :rolleyes:

[Sparkyprep]

Hey Spark better get your facts straight. I'm not a proponent of a police state, however I do think the Cops suggestion that we lock all of you up (and let a judge decide who's story is more truthful) is what ought to have been done.

FYI I've been a Peace Officer for about as long as I was a Police Officer over the last 20 years.

Yes Sarge. Plesse, keep making my point for me.

[GMFuzy]

There were 4 other adult witnesses - and video.
The LT told me it " wasn't the smartest thing to do" but also told me I was within my rights to defend myself.
Sarge sounds like the type of cop that harasses skateboarders in a park when the junkies are slamming dope on the playground.
Aside from being unconstitutional to arrest "ALL" without cause or reason, it's actions like this that flood our criminal justice system routinely delaying court dates and also a gigantic waste of funds.

[Sarge7402]

I'm really glad to see the positions some of you have taken.

Yes, I've been a peace officer for over 20 years and have had to deal with similar events working in small towns. With regards to locking both parties up, let's make one thing clear, Skippy # 1 that pulled the knife out while making threats does make him an agressor. That being said it does give Fzy cause to meet that level of force with a similar level. Had Fzy drawn a pistol and held it at the low ready or down at the side of his leg, I would say that that is reasonable response.

However do any of you really believe that just displaying the knife and making threats would justify aiming at Skippy #1 and pulling the trigger? Would never qualify as a justifiable shooting. In that light Fzy pulling his knife and lunging at Skippy # 1 would also be seen as an excessive use of force. That would take him from the realm of victim to primary aggressor.

As for arresting both parties, it sounds like both sides have some valid points in that the other side committed an act of violence on the other. Since the police function is to bring those committing crimes before representatives of the criminal justice system, arresting both parties would seem to be the fair thing to do.

In that manner both FZy and Skippy #1 would get to present their side of the event before an impartial individual (the judge or jury)/panel.

As far as being unconstitutional that is how our legal system is supposed to function.

I'm terribly sorry if several of you feel that my taking a skeptical view of Fzy's account of what happened, it comes with listening to victims and perps for too many hours.

[hawgrider]

let's make one thing clear, Skippy # 1 that pulled the knife out while making threats does make him an agressor. That being said it does give Fzy cause to meet that level of force with a similar level.

Equal force went out with the 90's
Mi. Self defence laws says if you try to attack me with a garbage can lid I do not have to retreat and If am in fear for my life can fill you full of lead.

[juskom95]

I'm really glad to see the positions some of you have taken.

Yes, I've been a peace officer for over 20 years and have had to deal with similar events working in small towns. With regards to locking both parties up, let's make one thing clear, Skippy # 1 that pulled the knife out while making threats does make him an agressor. That being said it does give Fzy cause to meet that level of force with a similar level. Had Fzy drawn a pistol and held it at the low ready or down at the side of his leg, I would say that that is reasonable response.
But you just stated before that GMFuzy was the aggressor for speaking out about a crime in progress.


However do any of you really believe that just displaying the knife and making threats would justify aiming at Skippy #1 and pulling the trigger? Would never qualify as a justifiable shooting. In that light Fzy pulling his knife and lunging at Skippy # 1 would also be seen as an excessive use of force. That would take him from the realm of victim to primary aggressor.
Considering that as a LEO it would be a justifiable use of force, yes. Last I checked a knife is considered a deadly weapon, unless something has changed and if they were within lunging distance it would be reasonable to believe one's life was in danger or they were facing imminent harm.


As for arresting both parties, it sounds like both sides have some valid points in that the other side committed an act of violence on the other. Since the police function is to bring those committing crimes before representatives of the criminal justice system, arresting both parties would seem to be the fair thing to do.
You're a "Big City," LEO aren't you?
The reality is that the officers had a "He said," type of account where each person was accusing the other as being the aggressor, video evidence withstanding. Maybe your approach is "LOCK EVERYONE UP!!!!" but most LEO's I've encountered and worked with are not like that, as reality would not support that.


In that manner both FZy and Skippy #1 would get to present their side of the event before an impartial individual (the judge or jury)/panel.
No reason to lock them up for that, and you even know better.


As far as being unconstitutional that is how our legal system is supposed to function.
The reality is that unless GMFuzy or the biker were an obvious threat AT THAT TIME then locking them up would get the officer (justifiably) called onto the carpet. Worst case, charges would be filed and the pair would have a court date scheduled.


I'm terribly sorry if several of you feel that my taking a skeptical view of Fzy's account of what happened, it comes with listening to victims and perps for too many hours.
Um, not quite. Good try, very good try, but try it on someone who didn't walk the walk why don't you.

You have an ego issue when it comes to being a LEO, and I've had to deal with your type when I worked the road repeatedly and one thing was always consistent. In your mind, EVERYONE IS A CRIMINAL, GUILTY FIRST and you don't care about anything else. You've been an officer for twenty years, and it shows that it is a definite "Us vs Them," attitude in your mind. As long as there are those out there with your mindset, officers will struggle to gain a community's trust.

[juskom95]

Equal force went out with the 90's
Mi. Self defence laws says if you try to attack me with a garbage can lid I do not have to retreat and If am in fear for my life can fill you full of lead.

Equal Force is not even part of ROE/RUF any longer. It is equal or greater force. If someone drew a knife on an officer and they drew their sidearm that is completely, %100 acceptable as a knife is deadly force. Yes the preferable choice is going to be less lethal, but a knife is (and has been for decades) been considered a deadly weapon.

[Mister Mills]

From my own experiences, I'm guessing the "Rude Cop," was young and/or new/inexperienced?

Especially if you have video of the altercation, to just be arresting you when it is a he said/he said situation . . .

On another note, I have ran into an increasing amount of LEO's who have a distaste for veterans in general.
Cops have an even greater distaste for vets who were in Airborne or SOCOM units, they must picture them as loose cannons. Guys who were Paratroopers, or Rangers or SF, inspire fear, and aversion. That is a personal belief of mine, and I think that it runs through general society. Most people will never think about joining the Army, much less the 75th Rangers, or the 82nd.

[juskom95]

Cops have an even greater distaste for vets who were in Airborne or SOCOM units, they must picture them as loose cannons. Guys who were Paratroopers, or Rangers or SF, inspire fear, and aversion. That is a personal belief of mine, and I think that it runs through general society. Most people will never think about joining the Army, much less the 75th Rangers, or the 82nd.

It is not universal, but it does seem to be a growing trend unfortunately.

I've started avoiding interaction with LEO's, or not letting them know I'm a vet until I get to know them better.

[Coastie dad]

I know this is mainly an LEO based discussion, but:

There is truth in the "prejudicial" treatment of vets here at the hospital. They are actually considered more dangerous than some of our aggressive patients being brought from jail.

[hawgrider]

I know this is mainly an LEO based discussion, but:

There is truth in the "prejudicial" treatment of vets here at the hospital. They are actually considered more dangerous than some of our aggressive patients being brought from jail.

Since when do we stay on topic? Need I remind you where you are?

[Coastie dad]

Are we in Seattle, proud to live in a sanctuary city, and willing to pay more taxes to keep it that way?


Some of you will get the reference.

[Slippy]

Are we in Seattle, proud to live in a sanctuary city, and willing to pay more taxes to keep it that way?


Some of you will get the reference.

Rammer Jammer...:mocking:

[Coastie dad]

The correct pronunciation is: jammituphis6.

Still think he and osc are one in the same. Closely related to opiestein.

[hawgrider]

The correct pronunciation is: jammituphis6.

Still think he and osc are one in the same. Closely related to opiestein.

Oh boy oh boy you mean round 3 has presented itself?
I got him banned twice now 3rd time is a charm!


Edited
I don't see anything going on over there.
You had my hopes up.... and nothing resembles opie over there.

[Inor]

I have to say that I have been pretty lucky with my run-ins with police. All but one have always treated me fairly and respectfully. The one that I did have a problem with was a young kid just out of police academy. So I figure that had a lot to do with it.

[OSFG]

I fortunately have only had one run in with a LEO in the last 20 years. He was a bit of a douche. But I'm Mr. "Yes Sir, Yes Sir" when it comes to them.

As far as folks thinking Vets, especially Airborne, Ranger, SOF, and SF are more dangerous..... I think there is just so much unknown about the military by most folks that they let the hollywood narrative play in their head.

Most guys I know (SF, Seals, Ranger) are quick to walk away from trouble, to let someone call them all sort of names, or "Win" the verbal argument.... Because we have nothing to prove anymore. I know that is the way I feel. It is hard to do so, but in the end I know I'm doing the right thing.

I will avoid a confrontation right up to the point I believe I can't and then I'm going to end it as humanly possible when that happens.

This whole PTSD thing is being handled like a crutch for everyone. It justifies everything, so its used constantly.

I have some bad dreams, I get aggravated quicker, I may react in a more aggressive tone, and I don't take smart asses trying to bully or push me around. But that doesn't mean I'm going to go straight to violence... I still have my sense of right and wrong and repercussion/consequences.

War changes everyone who has gone through it. Some more severe than others. My thoughts are that you become a survivor of it and move on with life, or you just use it as a constant crutch, like the whole racism thing is....oh poor poor me....blah, blah, blah.



I

[juskom95]

I have to say that I have been pretty lucky with my run-ins with police. All but one have always treated me fairly and respectfully. The one that I did have a problem with was a young kid just out of police academy. So I figure that had a lot to do with it.

Some of the young guys have HUGE chips on their shoulders. Nothing like seeing the senior partner give the junior officer The Look.

All of my run-ins have been overall not that bad (even the loony Liberal calls) but I have noticed a prejudice at times.

Sometimes being a former MP works out in my favor, sometimes not.

[juskom95]

I fortunately have only had one run in with a LEO in the last 20 years. He was a bit of a douche. But I'm Mr. "Yes Sir, Yes Sir" when it comes to them.

As far as folks thinking Vets, especially Airborne, Ranger, SOF, and SF are more dangerous..... I think there is just so much unknown about the military by most folks that they let the hollywood narrative play in their head.

There is a definite misconception, that and the whole dark/twisted humor most vets have doesn't quite jive with most civilians (though oddly enough I think most on here get it)



Most guys I know (SF, Seals, Ranger) are quick to walk away from trouble, to let someone call them all sort of names, or "Win" the verbal argument.... Because we have nothing to prove anymore. I know that is the way I feel. It is hard to do so, but in the end I know I'm doing the right thing.

I will avoid a confrontation right up to the point I believe I can't and then I'm going to end it as humanly possible when that happens.

I've walked away from more fights now than I ever did in the service or before. I think it is more of the "I don't really care," than anything else though.


This whole PTSD thing is being handled like a crutch for everyone. It justifies everything, so its used constantly.
I don't talk to anyone about it. PERIOD.

I made the mistake once, to someone I thought I could trust . . . . I had to leave that job.


I have some bad dreams, I get aggravated quicker, I may react in a more aggressive tone, and I don't take smart asses trying to bully or push me around. But that doesn't mean I'm going to go straight to violence... I still have my sense of right and wrong and repercussion/consequences.

War changes everyone who has gone through it. Some more severe than others. My thoughts are that you become a survivor of it and move on with life, or you just use it as a constant crutch, like the whole racism thing is....oh poor poor me....blah, blah, blah.

Yup

[hawgrider]

Are we in Seattle, proud to live in a sanctuary city, and willing to pay more taxes to keep it that way?


Some of you will get the reference.

Ok so Im a little slow apparently Is this the dip shit you guys are talking about?

yeah does seem to have some similarities to Opie6!


About Jammer Six
Location:
Seattle
Interests:
Woodworking, blacksmithing, diving, sailing
Occupation:
Trophy Husband

[Coastie dad]

That would be the one.

[Innkeeper]

I fortunately have only had one run in with a LEO in the last 20 years. He was a bit of a douche. But I'm Mr. "Yes Sir, Yes Sir" when it comes to them.

As far as folks thinking Vets, especially Airborne, Ranger, SOF, and SF are more dangerous..... I think there is just so much unknown about the military by most folks that they let the hollywood narrative play in their head.

Most guys I know (SF, Seals, Ranger) are quick to walk away from trouble, to let someone call them all sort of names, or "Win" the verbal argument.... Because we have nothing to prove anymore. I know that is the way I feel. It is hard to do so, but in the end I know I'm doing the right thing.

I will avoid a confrontation right up to the point I believe I can't and then I'm going to end it as humanly possible when that happens.

This whole PTSD thing is being handled like a crutch for everyone. It justifies everything, so its used constantly.

I have some bad dreams, I get aggravated quicker, I may react in a more aggressive tone, and I don't take smart asses trying to bully or push me around. But that doesn't mean I'm going to go straight to violence... I still have my sense of right and wrong and repercussion/consequences.

War changes everyone who has gone through it. Some more severe than others. My thoughts are that you become a survivor of it and move on with life, or you just use it as a constant crutch, like the whole racism thing is....oh poor poor me....blah, blah, blah.



I

I was doing a ride along for one of my clinicals the other day the officer I was riding with knew a lot of vets on and off the force and asked me my view on PTSD and how so many throw the word around as an excuse for them doing something wrong, and it is not just vets, but people who in my opinion are coached by liberal psycho babble that anytime something happens that might be “traumatic” they have PTSD and yes it is used as a crutch. This is one day going to have far reaching repercussions for all of us. Just my two cents.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[juskom95]

I was doing a ride along for one of my clinicals the other day the officer I was riding with knew a lot of vets on and off the force and asked me my view on PTSD and how so many throw the word around as an excuse for them doing something wrong, and it is not just vets, but people who in my opinion are coached by liberal psycho babble that anytime something happens that might be “traumatic” they have PTSD and yes it is used as a crutch. This is one day going to have far reaching repercussions for all of us. Just my two cents.

Typically the ones who throw it around as an excuse, use it as a crutch or reason for the bad behavior, are pieces of crap who are irresponsible and probably should not be in any sort of responsibility.

[Innkeeper]

Typically the ones who throw it around as an excuse, use it as a crutch or reason for the bad behavior, are pieces of crap who are irresponsible and probably should not be in any sort of responsibility.

He told me of a Fire Fighter who was arrested who used it as an excuse and one other person. I agree with you on that part, but the word is too liberally thrown around for too many things. Mine mostly affects my sleep, though I do get angry over some things easier, or at least quicker, but I am in charge of my emotions not the other way around.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[juskom95]

He told me of a Fire Fighter who was arrested who used it as an excuse and one other person. I agree with you on that part, but the word is too liberally thrown around for too many things.
Yup. Between the overuse by idiots and the ignorant stigma attached to it, people who need help won't/can't get it.


Mine mostly affects my sleep, though I do get angry over some things easier, or at least quicker, but I am in charge of my emotions not the other way around.
Sleep? What's that?

I find I have a general apathy and hatred to people in general; more so than before I got back to the states.

I've learned to avoid certain situations (which still doesn't go over well with the wife!)

[Mister Mills]

It is not universal, but it does seem to be a growing trend unfortunately.

I've started avoiding interaction with LEO's, or not letting them know I'm a vet until I get to know them better.

That is a smart move on your part, since you will be judged as a nut, or something. I don't know what has happened in America, but it is bad news. When a man who has honorably served is deemed a potential threat, it is sign that America has gone down the wrong road, and there is worse to come.

[juskom95]

That is a smart move on your part, since you will be judged as a nut, or something. I don't know what has happened in America, but it is bad news. When a man who has honorably served is deemed a potential threat, it is sign that America has gone down the wrong road, and there is worse to come.

It echo's (not the same) as the sentiment towards Vietnam vets. What I believe is that there has always been a strong undercurrent of hate, distrust and condensation towards veterans. It was not seen because it was not the "Politically Correct," thing to do after 9/11, but after sixteen years the sentiment is gone.

It goes back to the whole "Bumper Sticker Patriotism," I've claimed before.