Bug out rifle/pistol combos

[Arklatex]

Arizonas thread got me thinking about this. So I am starting this thread to keep from hijacking his. Having a rifle and pistol share the same ammo is a great plan. Especially in a bugout situation. I'm sure most of us have a .22 combo but what about something with more power. Caliber selection is where I'm having trouble making my choice. I'm leaning towards .357. What are your thoughts and opinions?

[Arklatex]

Lightweight option: in .45 same mags

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[Arklatex]

Heavyweight option in .44 mag

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[Imaexpat2]

Arklatex you and Arizona make some good points. They make some pretty solid sense as well. Here is why it makes sense in my opinion...Your bugging out to a safe location, not defending or attacking a position. Your trying to get from point A to Point B. You may be on foot doing so and need to be light and mobile. Your trying to avoid confrontation in that situation not find it. While you will likely need to collect small game for the pot, there is still a chance you might need to defend yourself from a small band of looters or a couple of dirtbags trying to rob you for what little you got. The rifle/handgun combo makes a lot of sense here in that situation from a pure utility stand point.

If you don't have a 22 rim fire with you, I use a Ruger Single Six for example, to collect small game I would go favor the 357 more so than I would the 44 mag although as a handloader you could probably achieve similar results. 38 Spl in lead round nose will collet small game at decent ranges if you got some skill with a handgun. In 357 Mag a 158gr SP would make short work of a hog or deer and would definitely screw a bad guys day up at point blank to about 50 yards in a handgun and max out in effective range in a rifle out to about 100 yards. There are a lot of very nice 4-6 inch barreled handguns out there that could fit in right well. There are still a number of decent lever actions out there to chamber the 357 as well. Interesting too is the fact that while its a single action, the Ruger Blackhawk Convertible will chamber the 9mm, 38 and 357. That ability to digest that wide a variety of ammo might offset the fact that its single action and prove a real asset in a SHTF situation for you.
If I did have a nice 22 rim fire handgun I would likely opt for the 44 Mag instead of the 357. Its got a lot more authority range and power wise when it gets there due to its larger size diameter and weight wise. I still own a 44 and with 180 gr slugs loaded to 1200 fps its pretty mild for a 44 mag load but does some amazing tissue damage inside 25-30 yards without the bullet blowing apart. In a rifle, I have personally dropped a Texas deer at a 100 yards with it while sitting back at camp while everyone else was out hunting using a Ruger auto loading 44 and a 240 gr run of the mill load. The bottom line is the 44 Mag works and often puts an exclaimation point at the end of it too! Were I in Bear country it would definitely be my choice over the 357 Mag 8 days a week. While both will kill a trophy Black Bear there is a huge difference in effectiveness between the two when you might find yourself being charged by one you walked up on before you realized it was there that close.

The other aspect you have to consider, do you have any recoil shy shooters with you who may not be able to manage the 44 mag which can be quite the handful in the hand as well as recoil wise. Say maybe your wife, girlfriend or teen ager who may have to also use the gun. If they are carrying the 357, then maybe its more prudent that you also carry the same from a ammunition logistics point of view as opposed to carrying the 44 Mag yourself. I mean lets suppose your teen Age boy in your family is carrying the 357, your lovely wife is as well and you are two. Each of the three of you could carry 2 x 50 round boxes of ammo in your pack, not be unduely penalized by weight but between the three of you that gives you 300 rounds of ammo to get you to your safe place. That's a lot of fire power on tap if its needed with three handguns and a rifle or two between you! Its definitely a subject worthy of consideration and thought.

[HuntingHawk]

44s of 1894 & Super Blackhawk.

9mm of semiauto Uzi & Browning Hi Power.

22s of Ruger 10/22 & H&R Sportsman.

[Arklatex]

44s of 1894 & Super Blackhawk.

9mm of semiauto Uzi & Browning Hi Power.

22s of Ruger 10/22 & H&R Sportsman.

HH how is the range on the uzi? I remember shooting one of the Israeli models with the folding stock a few years ago and I thought it was accurate but very heavy. Didn't get to stretch it out past fifty yards though.

[HuntingHawk]

The Uzi is more accurate then I am with it. Just not sights I'm use to.

I had done slow fire at 100yds & all shots were 8 or better on man size target, 10 shots. Same man size target rapid fire at 50yds & one shot was on paper but not a hit. The weight of the Uzi helps it stay on target for follow up shots.

The folding stock makes it easy to carry barrel down slung on the back. There are 10 & 16" barrels but being a carbine only the 16" barrel is legal. SHTF on the other hand ....

Depending on shooter & ammo, I would think effective at 200yds.

[Tachammer73]

Still on the lightweight end of things but I do like my .22wmr Ruger m77 and Taurus 922 tracker combo

[machinejjh]

If money is no object, and ammo is unlimited...
600601602

:-D

[HuntingHawk]

If money is no object, and ammo is unlimited...

I don't see the matching ammo.

[HuntingHawk]

My other half loves the UZI as even though its heavy there is very little recoil for her.

[machinejjh]

If money is no object, and ammo is unlimited...

I don't see the matching ammo.
5.7x28mm

[Just Sayin']

I believe that in theory, it's an absolutely great idea. I've entertained getting a Keltec Sub2000 in .40 S&W that uses the Glock mags and a corresponding Glock pistol. Most of my pistols are already .40's and I've got all the equipment to load that caliber. Both my wife and daughter can handle one.

I also reload .44 mag, but unless it's shot out of a rifle, neither my wife or daughter would touch a pistol in that caliber and dang sure would not be effective with it.

What has stopped me from actually consolidating my calibers, is that I lose some of the flexibility that we have. Our bugout and everyday guns are an AR15, a 12 ga. 1100, a 10/22, 2 .40 S&W pistols and a .22 pistol. Among those six guns, we have something that covers most everything we might need in a gun in most situations assuming we're all together.

I love the idea, and if money were not an object, I'd certainly like to have the Keltec as a truck gun. Unfortunately, it doesn't fit our plans very well.

[Slippy]

I strive to get all of them Please!

[Arizona Infidel]

We'll, I think everyone knows I favor the .44 triple play. Can my wife shoot it? I dunno. She can shoot my .45 but doesn't like it. I havnt been able to get her to shoot the Carbine. If I get the pistol I'll probably have her shoot it so she knows. I'm wanting to get her a 9mm and for rifle maybe a .22 I can put a silencer on. I look at the .44 as purely defensive. I can kill anything in the world with it. Anything. Do I need it right here? Probly not. But am I gonna stay right here? Who knows. I might wind up on a boat and wind up hitting shore in Africa. I don't know what will happen in the future. Another thing to think about is what kind of animals will get loose from zoos and circuses and be roaming around. I live 10 miles from a wild animal park and other than lions I don't know what they have. But I want to make sure I can kill it.

[Just Sayin']

[QUOTE=Arizona Infidel;7241]We'll, I think everyone knows I favor the .44 triple play. Can my wife shoot it? I dunno. She can shoot my .45 but doesn't like it. I havnt been able to get her to shoot the Carbine. /QUOTE]

I think she would like the .44 Carbine. My wife shoots our .44 mag H&R Handi rifle and loves it. She doesn't like the .44 mag pistol.

[Arizona Infidel]

[QUOTE=Arizona Infidel;7241]We'll, I think everyone knows I favor the .44 triple play. Can my wife shoot it? I dunno. She can shoot my .45 but doesn't like it. I havnt been able to get her to shoot the Carbine. /QUOTE]

I think she would like the .44 Carbine. My wife shoots our .44 mag H&R Handi rifle and loves it. She doesn't like the .44 mag pistol.Im gonna get a Pachmeyer decelerator pad for it. Maybe I'll try to get her to shoot it then.

[Arizona Infidel]

Want to point out, I think in a bug out situation, you won't be firing a firearm of any kind unless it's a last resort. You aren't going to want to let anyone know you are around. So a big unsilenced firearm will only be used for defense and only as the last resort. I believe any hunting will be done with a small caliber silenced firearm, pellet gun, or bow.

[dsdmmat]

[QUOTE=Just Sayin';7244]Im gonna get a Pachmeyer decelerator pad for it. Maybe I'll try to get her to shoot it then.

You can try porting the carbine too, that will help reduce the reciol and muzzle rise a bit.

[Arizona Infidel]

I was thinking about that also.

[Arklatex]

Another thing to think about is what kind of animals will get loose from zoos and circuses and be roaming around. I live 10 miles from a wild animal park and other than lions I don't know what they have. But I want to make sure I can kill it.

Damn good point. I can honestly say I never thought about this scenario.

[Arklatex]

Anyone ever hear of the BFR line by magnum research? They have rifle caliber revolvers. I bet they kick like a mule... I wonder how much power is lost due to the shorter barrel?

603

Here's a pic

[dsdmmat]

Anyone ever hear of the BFR line by magnum research? They have rifle caliber revolvers. I bet they kick like a mule... I wonder how much power is lost due to the shorter barrel?

603

Here's one in 30-30

Ballistics by the inch.com can tell you the velocity loss.

[Arizona Infidel]

Anyone ever hear of the BFR line by magnum research? They have rifle caliber revolvers. I bet they kick like a mule... I wonder how much power is lost due to the shorter barrel?

603

Here's a pic Here's the problem I see with that. At what point does it become ridiculous? What is the purpose of a sidearm? Isn't it convenience? Is that thing any easier to haul around than the rifle?

[Arklatex]

Ballistics by the inch.com can tell you the velocity loss.

Just checked there and none of the BFR calibers are listed. Google search turned up a little but I didn't dig too deep. The charts on the by the inch site suggest significant loss on all calibers though. Don't think it will matter much if it is part of the combo anyway.

[Arklatex]

Here's the problem I see with that. At what point does it become ridiculous? What is the purpose of a sidearm? Isn't it convenience? Is that thing any easier to haul around than the rifle?

No it isn't something I would carry. I'm just digging to see what's out there that can share ammo with rifles. I would think the bfr is more of a rifle replacement rather than a complement

[dsdmmat]

Just checked there and none of the BFR calibers are listed. Google search turned up a little but I didn't dig too deep. The charts on the by the inch site suggest significant loss on all calibers though. Don't think it will matter much if it is part of the combo anyway.

Yeah the .308 winchester loses something like 25FPS per inch. It is an interesting place to get data from though. I wish they would do more testing on different calibers though. It is blocked over here.

AI- that thing is probably as heavy as a rifle too. I like the .44 Mag Combo you are going for it does make a lot of sense. One thing you may want to consider since you live so close to a zoo is going with a 445 Super mag revolver for your carry 5 or 6 inch gun, you can still shoot 44 Mags and Specials out of it but the .445 Super Mag cartridge will give you a lot more punch to take out some of the exotic zoo animals you may encounter.

[Arklatex]

A few more combos to think about:

.410/45 colt
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.22 mag
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.40
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Note: actual make/model doesn't matter. Just the fact that it is available as both rifle and pistol. Seems like a lot of the pistol caliber semi auto carbines use glock mags though.

[Imaexpat2]

5.7x28mm

The 5.7 is a great round however, its a bit expensive to buy commercially loaded ammo and not incredibly common. The other aspect with this cartridge is the fact that reloaders don't always have access to the same powders that manufactures use and the powders and loads that are currently available to reloaders makes this round a little picky when it comes to reliable functioning in auto loading pistols. It has a lot to offer though...low recoil, very effective on humans and will penetrate most bullet proof vest up to threat Level IIIA grade.

[machinejjh]

Yes, it is pricy, hence why I said if money is no object LOL. My buddy reloads his 5.7 ammo, and while it isn't perfect they work pretty dang good. That pistol is like shooting BB's... He's looking at an upper to pair with it. They are quiet and if you stick a can on it... Holy Moly I want one. At $1200 bucks its out of my range.

[Imaexpat2]

Originally Posted by Arizona Infidel View Post

Another thing to think about is what kind of animals will get loose from zoos and circuses and be roaming around. I live 10 miles from a wild animal park and other than lions I don't know what they have. But I want to make sure I can kill it.

That's a good point you make there. I would imagine that Zoos would put such animals down as opposed to releasing them, but...you cant assume can you? It does make good justification for me adding a 416 Weatherby to my collection of guns although Im thinking I am kind of reaching for air on that one. But hey I always wanted something that was a big bore charge stopper and here is half an excuse! Its quite the thumper, especially when compared to the 375 H&H Mag!!! I have seen a couple of Cape Buffalo and several Greater Kudu (comparable to a moose in size) shot in Kenya and South Africa with both and the 416 was a lot more dramatic results wise regardless of if it was the Rigby or the Weatherby. If I though there was a possibility I could make another trip to Africa or if I lived in Alaska I would get one!!!

[Ordnance21]

Mine is M1A in .308 and M1911A1 in .45 cal. My back up gun is a Browning PRO-9 in 9MM.

[HuntingHawk]

Getting off track from the OP.

[Pauls]

Thhe only two guns I have that use the same ammo are my 22 pistols and my 22 rifles. My carry side arms are 357 and 45 and my long guns are 25, 30, and 35 caliber - in rifle calibers that will kill deer easily at 200 + yards.

I don't want to have a rifle cartridge in my handgun and I don't want a pistol round in my rifle. It sounds good in practice, but it limits the use - either way.

[Arklatex]

Thhe only two guns I have that use the same ammo are my 22 pistols and my 22 rifles. My carry side arms are 357 and 45 and my long guns are 25, 30, and 35 caliber - in rifle calibers that will kill deer easily at 200 + yards.

I don't want to have a rifle cartridge in my handgun and I don't want a pistol round in my rifle. It sounds good in practice, but it limits the use - either way.

Quoted from a wise man:

Having a long gun and a handgun that shoot the same cartridge enables shooters to carry one type of ammunition, and load both guns from one box or cartridge belt. Running short on one type of ammo doesn’t happen; both guns stay in the game—or fight—until the last cartridge is gone.

[Pauls]

I don't plan to bug out so I won't have to carry the 1000+rounds I have for each gun.

It might be different if I had to walk carrying ammo - I would limit it to three or four guns.

[Arklatex]

I don't plan to bug out

Me neither. But I still like the concept.

[Pauls]

Me neither. But I still like the concept.

Then you should do it! Just because an old codger like me doesn't think it's a good idea doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. You prep for yourself!!

[dsdmmat]

Yes, it is pricy, hence why I said if money is no object LOL. My buddy reloads his 5.7 ammo, and while it isn't perfect they work pretty dang good. That pistol is like shooting BB's... He's looking at an upper to pair with it. They are quiet and if you stick a can on it... Holy Moly I want one. At $1200 bucks its out of my range.

I picked up an AR57 upper in 2012 for 700 bucks. I liked the round so much I had a bolt gun built for it. I also reload for the 5.7x28 it is a fun little caliber. You can get 1100 rounds from one can of HS7 so it is pretty economical for a 150 yard round. As Far as getting an FNfiveSeven pistol to go along with it, NYers are restricted to 10 rounds so buying that 1200 dollar handgun seems like a waste to me. I gave the AR57 to my daughter so she could take full advantage of the 50 round mags in her state. I may buy her the FNfiveSeven pistol to compliment her carbine though.

There are a lot of great combos out there. A long time ago I bought the Marlin Camp Carbine in .45 ACP which takes the same magazines as most of my 1911s. That is a great carbine to get if you can find one. Magazine and round parity are great in a combo if you can get it.

[HuntingHawk]

Main reason for my 44 revolver & rifle were close range hunting of wild hog in the swamp where encountering alligators is also a possibility. Haven't done that hunting anymore since breaking my hip.