Converting a vehicle post-SHTF

[TJC44]

I am wondering what plans, kits, ideas are out there to convert a vehicle to non-computerized. I'm thinking one would need to convert from fuel injection to carburetor, a way to generate spark AND sync it to timing, gas pedal linkage as most pedals are just variable sensors now. I'm not sure about brakes, considering the state of ABS, May have to hardwired the fuel pump.

[Just Sayin']

Pre -1980ish, not much of a problem for most American cars or trucks. Mid-80's to about the early 90's, you can probably retrofit enough to get a runner, and after that, you're pretty much gonna be SOL. There just isn't a way to get around the design unless you own one hell of a machine shop and have a lot of knowledge.

[pheniox17]

You can get a carb conversion kit for the ls2 V8 (5.7 CHEV/GM/AU HOLDEN)

But for a bov, old desial, 6cyl or 4cyl turbo, but you need a new turbo...)

Au available and I would put my name to
Toyota hilux, land cruiser (60-100 series Sahara) Nissan patrol... There are others but those old 4wds I see still running today on Australian 4wd tracks, and tbh they still match modern performance, (maybe because the older ones people don't care if
They sscratch unlike the $100,000 new beaut toy

[Sparkyprep]

Think smaller. Unless you are needing a BOV after the EMP, you would be much better off with an ATV, or UTV. You would have 4 wheel drive, great off-road capability, more discrete, and way more fuel efficient. Personally, since I have no intention of bugging out, my primary means of transportation will be a Polaris UTV. Utilize a centrifugal clutch, and with its small size, it is way easier to shield against EMP.

[Arizona Infidel]

Gas doesn't keep for very long. While you are figuring out how to convert you vehicle to a car orator and points distributed, are you also figuring out how to build a refinery?

[TJC44]

LOL, The refinery's a piece of cake....
A couple of old coffee cans, some duct tape, baling wire, tubing, done.

O.K. a tougher job than I initially thought. I was just throwing out ideas.

TJC

[Arklatex]

I agree with phen about the diesel. May be easier to convert a diesel to run on homemade biodiesel than to convert a fuel injected vehicle. The material may be hard to find, never really looked into it other than a few youtube videos. Just a thought.

[omegabrock]

biodiesel, is it hard to set that up? and how is the maint of them compared to a gas engine? longevity?

[pheniox17]

Diesel don't go off, it dose get dirty

[OSFG]

They had that episode of Myth buster where the ran a modern fuel injected computer controlled car off of Moonshine. It worked well and moreover they where using store bought moonshine that has already been diluted with water to reduce the proof to commercial standards. The computer adjusted well to the new required fuel air mix and worked. That is a way to keep driving any gas engine without a refinery. But a carburetor engine might require different jets to be installed or at least a severe adjustment to the carburetor. Anyone ever tried to run an engine off of Moonshine? Undiluted?

[Pauls]

Any flex fuel engine can run on alcohol. The best fuel is 160 proof (80% by volume). Any car fitted with a crank-triggered ignition can be converted to a carburetor. The ignition will have to use individual coil packs but it can be done without a computer. A carbureted gas engine is relatively easy to convert to alcohol and you don't need to add oil to it to protect the rings or valves. Your crankcase is full of oil that already does that. The modifications to the carburetor can be simple or more complex depending on your needs. If you just want to get around reliably then a change of jet sizes and enlarging of the idle feed restrictors and the power valve restrictors is all you need. If you want the ultimate in power and drivability then you will need to use smaller air bleeds and modify the emulsion tubes and float levels.

It isn't rocket science, but it is close.

[OSFG]

Any flex fuel engine can run on alcohol. The best fuel is 160 proof (80% by volume). Any car fitted with a crank-triggered ignition can be converted to a carburetor. The ignition will have to use individual coil packs but it can be done without a computer. A carbureted gas engine is relatively easy to convert to alcohol and you don't need to add oil to it to protect the rings or valves. Your crankcase is full of oil that already does that. The modifications to the carburetor can be simple or more complex depending on your needs. If you just want to get around reliably then a change of jet sizes and enlarging of the idle feed restrictors and the power valve restrictors is all you need. If you want the ultimate in power and drivability then you will need to use smaller air bleeds and modify the emulsion tubes and float levels.

It isn't rocket science, but it is close.

Thanks for the added info. I had heard as a young boy to add the oil because the alcohol strips the oil from the cylinder and rings (the permeated lubricant) faster and burns hotter and its good to add a small amount...but I'm not experienced in it nor have I done it. But good info and thanks for the corrective knowledge.

[OSFG]

If you just want to get around reliably then a change of jet sizes and enlarging of the idle feed restrictors and the power valve restrictors is all you need. If you want the ultimate in power and drivability then you will need to use smaller air bleeds and modify the emulsion tubes and float levels.


Paul...are you just making up words and imaginary car parts now? Maybe I should adjust my Transmogrifiers as well?

[pheniox17]

He is talking carbie fine print, and a little annoying item known locally as "pollution gear" in older cars just a carbon filter, without it the law cracks down hard, no law = the first thing to go (slight horsepower increase)

[Pauls]

The fuel from the carburetor fuel bowl is sucked up some tubes through the main jets. Those tubes have a restricted entrance and holes in them at different levels to mix the fuel with air to begin the vaporization process and make it mix with the air in the carburetor easier. Those tubes are the emulsion tubes. Since alcohol carries oxygen in the fuel you need fewer or smaller holes in the tubes.

The idle feed restrictions are like a jet to regulate the maximum amount of fuel that can go into the idle circuit of the carb. The power valve channel restrictor is another jet that regulates the maximum amount of fuel that is added to the normal fuel under power - like accelerating or climbing a hill. Those restrictions are fixed and have to be drilled to make them bigger for the alcohol.

43 years working in the automotive/heavy equipment fields has some benefits. I spent a lot of time in classes - for my employer and on my own to learn everything I could.

[OSFG]

The fuel from the carburetor fuel bowl is sucked up some tubes through the main jets. Those tubes have a restricted entrance and holes in them at different levels to mix the fuel with air to begin the vaporization process and make it mix with the air in the carburetor easier. Those tubes are the emulsion tubes. Since alcohol carries oxygen in the fuel you need fewer or smaller holes in the tubes.

The idle feed restrictions are like a jet to regulate the maximum amount of fuel that can go into the idle circuit of the carb. The power valve channel restrictor is another jet that regulates the maximum amount of fuel that is added to the normal fuel under power - like accelerating or climbing a hill. Those restrictions are fixed and have to be drilled to make them bigger for the alcohol.

43 years working in the automotive/heavy equipment fields has some benefits. I spent a lot of time in classes - for my employer and on my own to learn everything I could.

:ughh: :thinking: :yessir:

[Pauls]

Don't call me sir! I, frankly, don't deserve it. I was just born with the ability to learn about everything I was interested in.

[OSFG]

But it is that ability that makes you a great asset to any group you are involved in or community you may be part of. That is deserving of respect Sir.

[Pauls]

Old SF Guy,
I am just a man with a gift. Respect is earned - and you have earned that much more than I.

I thank you for the sentiment and all I can say is that anyone who has served in the military has my respect - and they (you) earned it in spades. "Thank you for your service" never sounds like enough, but I would buy you the drink of your choice anytime.

[Arizona Infidel]

Any flex fuel engine can run on alcohol. The best fuel is 160 proof (80% by volume). Any car fitted with a crank-triggered ignition can be converted to a carburetor. The ignition will have to use individual coil packs but it can be done without a computer. A carbureted gas engine is relatively easy to convert to alcohol and you don't need to add oil to it to protect the rings or valves. Your crankcase is full of oil that already does that. The modifications to the carburetor can be simple or more complex depending on your needs. If you just want to get around reliably then a change of jet sizes and enlarging of the idle feed restrictors and the power valve restrictors is all you need. If you want the ultimate in power and drivability then you will need to use smaller air bleeds and modify the emulsion tubes and float levels.

It isn't rocket science, but it is close.
Right. So basically your gonna have to grow a shitload of something, corn, potatoes etc. Learn how to distill it. And build yourself a big ass still. Have you watched moonshiners? It would be a full time job just to make alcohol to run your car.

[big paul]

I'm not bothering about motorised transport POST SHTF, its most likely that all supplies of petrol and diesel will either be used up or unobtainable due to lack of electricity. I'm keeping a stock of some petrol which may last me if rationed for 4 or 5 months, but long term I'm looking at a pony or donkey cart.

[Arklatex]

I'm not bothering about motorised transport POST SHTF, its most likely that all supplies of petrol and diesel will either be used up or unobtainable due to lack of electricity. I'm keeping a stock of some petrol which may last me if rationed for 4 or 5 months, but long term I'm looking at a pony or donkey cart.
If the horses and donkeys aren't all eaten due to people trying to survive the famine I think they will be the number 1 transportation here in America.

[big paul]

most people in the UK haven't the faintest idea where their food comes from and don't really care, they don't even know what animal their eating most of the time. however we recently had the "horsemeat scandal" in the UK and I somehow doubt that many people will be eating horsemeat let alone donkey meat anytime soon.

[Arklatex]

most people in the UK haven't the faintest idea where their food comes from and don't really care, they don't even know what animal their eating most of the time. however we recently had the "horsemeat scandal" in the UK and I somehow doubt that many people will be eating horsemeat let alone donkey meat anytime soon.
I heard about that. Wasn't it a frozen lasagna company? Anyways I hope your right about people not eating up all the horses. I think it will be a mental block like eating cats and dogs. on the other hand, starving people will eat just about anything.

[big paul]

it was mostly in burgers I think. I don't think the British have the mental capacity to eat horse..its sort of a cultural thing, it wouldn't bother me but I think it does most people here.

[omegabrock]

i would like to have an ATV of some sort...or horses.

[Smokin04]

Not difficult to do OP, but just expensive and time consuming.

Carb'd engine and mechanical everything.

[Imaexpat2]

I think the breaking point on year models that can be converted easily is when you reach a point in the newer models where the transmission and things other than the engine/fuel/spark delivery are controlled by the vehicles computer. For example I have a 1989 Chevy P/U that's a stick shift and the only thing the computer controls is fuel/air/spark delivery which would make it easy to convert back to the old school carb, mechanical fuel pump and HIE distributor. In fact now that I no longer have to smog it...it just might end up going back that way when its time to rebuild the engine that has about 160K on it!

[Innkeeper]

I heard about that. Wasn't it a frozen lasagna company? Anyways I hope your right about people not eating up all the horses. I think it will be a mental block like eating cats and dogs. on the other hand, starving people will eat just about anything.

I had dog a few times in Korea, it is really not that bad, and I know they ate cat as well I saw it down in some of their markets when I went down there to see the sites either with my gf, or one of the Katusa's we hung out with. I agree about the mental block, do not get me wrong I am not going to eat my Lab she is invaluable for bird hunting, but animals will run wild when their owners are dead or gone, and that makes them fair game especially when they might come after you or your kids.(well not the cats at least)

[Pauls]

The computerized transmissions are easy to convert to manual shift. You just have to make a switch setup to ground the appropriate solenoids and by-pass the computer which does the same thing.

[jbrooks19]

Pauls..Is ALMOST annoyingly smart haha :thumb:

[Smokin04]

The computerized transmissions are easy to convert to manual shift. You just have to make a switch setup to ground the appropriate solenoids and by-pass the computer which does the same thing.

While yes you COULD do that Paul, it would absolutely trigger a Check Engine Light and potentially affect other computer based operations...not to mention having to shift each gear manually via every switch. Now if we're truly swapping out ALL electric components for non-electric ones, you will need vacuum operated shift solenoids, and a mechanical cable to shift it. Without either of those, the solenoids would not shift (without switched input which would be irritating as shit resetting them every time you changed speed or stopped), and you could not power the main shift solenoid (linked to the neutral safety switch) to get it out of park (while yes this IS possible, you wouldn't want this feature as the car could be started in drive/reverse/etc).

Easiest way is to convert to an already vacuum operated mechanical style trans and engine combo, and get rid of the hydroboost (or electric power assist) type brake boosters that most modern vehicles are runnning now. Chasing tuning errors and noid lights trying to get the other way to work would make most tuners pull their hair out and walk away.

[Pauls]

The shifters in these cars already have the switches necessary. They just connect the grounding wires to the computer. All the electric solenoids for changing gears are in the transmissions - it is all electric there are no vacuum shift servos at all. (I am talking about the automatic transmissions and not the manual transmissions)

To remove the computer and keep the transmission functional all it takes is a shifter connected to the switches with a "cam" that turns on the correct solenoids to get the gear you want. (some servos are used in more than one gear)

I have done this for rally racers on the five speed autos after beefing the transmissions to take more abuse. It is not difficult at all as long as you can read the flow chart. The shifts are very hard (quick and very firm) so you would be better off shifting at low RPM for street use. When racing you use the full RPM band at your disposal and let the tires squeal if they must. The "check engine light runs off the computer too so with the computer gone it wouldn't work at all . You can use the "standard transmission" harness plug if you want to keep the computer and go with a manually shifted automatic because then the computer "thinks" that you are doing the shifting with a standard manual transmission. The "shift now" light will tell you when there is no load on the engine and you are in a lower gear. It is set up to get you good mileage and not necessarily good performance.

[Smokin04]

The shifters in these cars already have the switches necessary. They just connect the grounding wires to the computer.



Which cars are you talking about? There are only about a billion cars on the road...they don't ALL work the same way. And it also depends on which computer you're talking about. I know Ford EEC-V's have 7 internal PCM grounds. Chevy's have 7-14 depending on the year/make/model. All shifting is done electronically through internal valve body check balls, servo's (or soleniods depending on who you talk to), and line pressure. All of which is adjustable by aftermarket tuning. (Was in that world for 12 years.)

And keep in mind the original post is how to ELIMINATE the computer function all together...like after an EMP.

[Pauls]

Well, My books and tech info is all in storage but I know that Ford, Chevy and Dodge medium and full size transmissions use a bank of electric solenoids mounted to the valve body (on computrerized auto transmission) to do the shifting. There are still governor valves and shift valves and pressure regulating valves in the valve body and controlled orfices in the separator plates to control the timing and harshness of the shift. (I typically ream the restrictor holes to make the shifts quicker and boost pressures to firm up the shift)

The older transmissions from the 60s and 70s were easier to firm the shifts and modify the timing on but you needed to radically modify the valve bodies to make them a manually shifted automatic.

(I have been working on automatic transmissions and modifying them for drag and rally racing since 1971 or 1972) In the beginning there was lots of experimenting to find the right combinations of things to do but once we got the shift timing down we had the time to modify the cooling and lubrication systems to make them last even with all the abuse we gave them.

[1moretoy]

Would not a model with a carb, old-fashioned distributor and manual tranny work best?

[Pauls]

Would not a model with a carb, old-fashioned distributor and manual tranny work best?

Work best for what? Under what conditions?

For me, a manual transmission would not last long. I tend to wear clutches very fast. That's why I built the automatics in both my car and my wife's car. They are big improvements over the stock autos that came in them. I should pull up some of the photos of the mods that I made to transmissions to show what can be done to improve them.

I don't ride the clutch in cars with manual transmissions but I shift a lot and I go through a clutch in under a year usually. Down-shifting instead of using the brakes is probably where I wear them the most.

[Inor]

All shifting is done electronically through internal valve body check balls...


There are still governor valves and shift valves and pressure regulating valves in the valve body and controlled orfices...

Check balls, controlled orifices... Why don't you two get a room? :supergay:

[OSFG]

No Goddamn it...Thors Hammer can not be lifted by anyone other than Thor!!!!.....BUt what about if the Hulk lifts Thor and he's holding the Hammer? Isn't he......As Inor said...get a room or find a saw dust pit.

[1moretoy]

Work best for what? Under what conditions?

For me, a manual transmission would not last long. I tend to wear clutches very fast. That's why I built the automatics in both my car and my wife's car. They are big improvements over the stock autos that came in them. I should pull up some of the photos of the mods that I made to transmissions to show what can be done to improve them.


I don't ride the clutch in cars with manual transmissions but I shift a lot and I go through a clutch in under a year usually. Down-shifting instead of using the brakes is probably where I wear them the most.

I should have used the quote function Pauls as I was answering the original post (all the way back to #1) which was trying to convert something to the specs I listed. My response was simply asking if buying one already designed that way would be easier than making mods to something that was not. No conditions were mentioned by the OP.

[Smokin04]

I should have used the quote function Pauls as I was answering the original post (all the way back to #1) which was trying to convert something to the specs I listed. My response was simply asking if buying one already designed that way would be easier than making mods to something that was not. No conditions were mentioned by the OP.

In a word...yes. Much easier to buy a car with all the mechanical stuff in place already. 99% of the time it will be far cheaper to do that than mod a newer vehicle to work like the older one.




For me, a manual transmission would not last long. I tend to wear clutches very fast. I don't ride the clutch in cars with manual transmissions but I shift a lot and I go through a clutch in under a year usually. Down-shifting instead of using the brakes is probably where I wear them the most.

So...A) it's not the trans that isn't lasting long, it's the clutch. and B) you admit that it's YOUR driving habits that kill it, not a weak transmission. The fact that you choose to use the $2-4K trans/clutch to slow down instead of the $1-300 brakes (which is their sole job) is your own fault. I've always had manuals in my fast cars. I don't want to hear that an auto is stronger than a manual either because it's just not a true statement.


Check balls, controlled orifices... Why don't you two get a room? :supergay:

Because I wouldn't care to know that you're behind the one way mirror jerking it while you watch...You're a sick man Mike.

[Inor]

Because I wouldn't care to know that you're behind the one way mirror jerking it while you watch...You're a sick man Mike.

Another squandered opportunity... I was going to make a video and post it on the inter-tubes and make millions. I was going to call it: "Celebrity Tranny". :D

[Innkeeper]

No Goddamn it...Thors Hammer can not be lifted by anyone other than Thor!!!!.....BUt what about if the Hulk lifts Thor and he's holding the Hammer? Isn't he......As Inor said...get a room or find a saw dust pit.

Been watching the Big Bang Theory recently?

[Sparkyprep]

Been watching the Big Bang Theory recently?

Yes

[Innkeeper]

Yes

I love that show, one of my favorites since it started, one of the few I still watch besides history channel and Discovery, though yes TWD is another and I have been enjoying The Last Ship.....makes one think about what if and the fact I do think a Pandemic is what we need to worry about most. just saying....