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Thread: Old tools

  1. #1
    Just this guy Inor's Avatar
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    Old tools

    As most of you know, I have a thing for old tools, especially old hand planes.

    When we were living in Minnesota, Mrs Inor used to go to garage sales all the time. If they had some decent looking old hand planes she would buy them for me. She does not know much about the collectable value of tools, but she does know a quality tool when she sees one and if they were less than $3, she would buy them. Usually, I just wrapped them up carefully in a towel for storage with the intent of eventually refinishing them. We had several boxes of them when we moved. A couple days ago I finally found them and started unpacking them and going through the planes in them. Several are Stantons or Craftsmans from the 1950's and 60's, but there are also several vintage Stanley-Baileys too. The fact that she bought all of them for less than $3 each is amazing to me.

    Today, I found this little baby:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It is a Number 5 1/4 Type 13 Jack Plane, made between 1925 and 1928.

    Giving it a quick look-over, it is in excellent shape. It is obviously rusty, but there is only very minor pitting and all of it is just on the surface. The varnish on the Rosewood tote and knob is not even cracked. The only thing I think might be wrong with it is, I think the Cap Iron may have been replaced because it does not have the black Stanley logo that would have been on a Type 13. That is not an issue for me because I do not intend for it to sit on a shelf and look nice; I intend to use it for its intended purpose.
    Last edited by Inor; 04-06-2021 at 12:32 AM.
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    VIP Member! Big Ken's Avatar
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    If you don't mind me asking what is the true value of a tool such as that, I hit a garage sale every once in a whileand might be something to take notice of.
    dramey82

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    Just this guy Inor's Avatar
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    I started by disassembling it.

    Attachment 13734

    The japaning has a few chips but is still in pretty good shape for a tool that is at least 93 years old. If I were restoring it, I would probably sand blast it and redo the japaning. But for what I am going to use it for, I consider the minor chipping to be beauty marks.

    Whoever had it obviously loved it and took great care of it. He was also obviously a talented right-handed woodworker. The iron was sharpened by hand without a jig or a grinder. It is easy to tell because the corners are little more ground down than the center with the right side being more ground than the left. I will use a jig to get back to being perfectly square again but will always hand-sharpen it. Only a jack-pine savage would use a jig for day-to-day sharpening.

    After spending about an hour scrubbing it down good with a brass brush and mineral spirits, I started to work on cleaning up the Frog and the Body. I started with M2 emory cloth on a piece of float glass. Then went to 100 grit for trueing the surfaces. I was surprised at how even the surfaces were worn. The plane has obviously seen quite a bit of use, but whoever used it knew how to use it. (You can always tell when a plane is used cocked at an angle, rather than straight, because there will be small valley running on the sole from the left-front corner to the right rear for a righty.). This plane had none of that.

    I initially thought the Iron might have been replaced because I did not initially see the Stanley stamping on it. But after I got some of the snarf cleaned off, it did appear and upon checking, it is consistent with the stamping they used on the Type 13's.

    I spent a total of about 4 hours on it this evening and got the Frog and the Body flattened and sanded through 150 grit. The grits will start going much quicker now. I will only take the Frog up to 220 or 320 grit, but I am planning on taking the body all the way to 2000 grit. Once I get to 400 grit, I will also start working the Cap Iron and the Chip Breaker with sandpaper as well.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It is a slow and dirty process, but I forgot how much I really enjoy breathing new life into vintage tools. I think this baby is going to be a really sweet little Jack Plane when I get it done; much better than the crap you spend $300+ dollars for now!
    Last edited by Inor; 04-06-2021 at 01:29 AM.
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    Just this guy Inor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ken View Post
    If you don't mind me asking what is the true value of a tool such as that, I hit a garage sale every once in a whileand might be something to take notice of.
    On E-Bay, they are selling for $200-$300 for a really nice one. Now if you can find a Stanley No 1, even in crappy shape they are north of $1000!
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    I bought a couple of old Stanley planes at a garage sale a few years ago. I just put them in the bottom of the Kennedy Roll Away and forgot about them. It may be time to take a peek at them.
    Keep Your Head Up, And your Stick On The Ice.

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  10. #6
    Just this guy Inor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BucketBack View Post
    I bought a couple of old Stanley planes at a garage sale a few years ago. I just put them in the bottom of the Kennedy Roll Away and forgot about them. It may be time to take a peek at them.
    I use this site to check the ages.

    https://woodandshop.com/identify-sta...ge-type-study/
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  12. #7
    PISSED OFF Mad Trapper's Avatar
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    I too have collected a bunch of old planes, some small but I also have a real big one ~2 feet long. I'd have to check the makers?

    I started to learn traditional timber framing from an old gentleman who many considered a master, Richard "Dick" Babcock. He taught me to do layout of beams, posts and braces without the use of a square, or tape/ruler. The tools used are a large divider/compass, plumb bob, and chalk line. You can make things perfectly square and layout precise angles. You can use those tools to mark logs to be hewn into timbers, and mark the joinery on the timbers.

    I've also acquired a collection of other hand tools used to convert trees into a timber frame. Two man saws for felling (thin and flexible) and bucking (wider in depth and less flexible). Hand saws for ripping and crosscuts. A large collection of framing chisels of various size, corner chisels, and a large slick. Hand augers, hand drilling braces, and a hand boring machine, all used to open pockets for mortices and bore holes for pegs. Axes and hatchets.

    All these tools are antique but in excellent working condition. As Inor mentioned with the planes it takes some skill to maintain/sharpen many of these tools.

    The saws need not only to be sharpened with proper files, but the teeth "set" to maintain a kerf so the saws won't bind. The two man saws also have rakers that are filed to be sharp and peel out the scored wood from the kerf, and also set the depth of the cut for the cutting teeth (depth set different for hard- vs soft-woods). The chisels are sharpened much like iron on a plane Inor mentioned, using various stones. The axes and auger bits sharpened with both files and stones.

    I don't have any pictures handy but can take some if if anyone is interested?

    On old frames there would be a beam that had a series of circles scribed into it with a compass. These circles were reference for laying out the joinery on the whole frame. Framers would set their compass from these circles as they laid out the joinery. You'll notice "the star of David" was laid out to get perfectly square sides , and ends on the beams. Laying out braces with a compass/divider is a little more involved, but you can make perfect 45 degree braces, or 30 60 degree braces, and layout their mortices too.

    Here are a couple of sketches I did showing layout of posts and beams for a timber frame.

    post and tie-1.pdf

    Click image for larger version. 

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    To learn, my first project was a "timber framed" woodrack, for inside the house from some 4 X 4" ash I milled up ( cheated there milled not hewn). A few pictures showing the woodrack and some of the layout/joinery (circles/chalk lines) on the tie beams on the bottom. I used a shouldered M + T joint on the tie so it could handle the weight of a full rack of wood. Everything was square and the joinery tight.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hope I did not hijack your thread @Inor. I'll get some tool pictures next post.

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  14. #8
    Just this guy Inor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Trapper View Post
    I too have collected a bunch of old planes, some small but I also have a real big one ~2 feet long. I'd have to check the makers?

    I started to learn traditional timber framing from an old gentleman who many considered a master, Richard "Dick" Babcock. He taught me to do layout of beams, posts and braces without the use of a square, or tape/ruler. The tools used are a large divider/compass, plumb bob, and chalk line. You can make things perfectly square and layout precise angles. You can use those tools to mark logs to be hewn into timbers, and mark the joinery on the timbers.

    I've also acquired a collection of other hand tools used to convert trees into a timber frame. Two man saws for felling (thin and flexible) and bucking (wider in depth and less flexible). Hand saws for ripping and crosscuts. A large collection of framing chisels of various size, corner chisels, and a large slick. Hand augers, hand drilling braces, and a hand boring machine, all used to open pockets for mortices and bore holes for pegs. Axes and hatchets.

    All these tools are antique but in excellent working condition. As Inor mentioned with the planes it takes some skill to maintain/sharpen many of these tools.

    The saws need not only to be sharpened with proper files, but the teeth "set" to maintain a kerf so the saws won't bind. The two man saws also have rakers that are filed to be sharp and peel out the scored wood from the kerf, and also set the depth of the cut for the cutting teeth (depth set different for hard- vs soft-woods). The chisels are sharpened much like iron on a plane Inor mentioned, using various stones. The axes and auger bits sharpened with both files and stones.

    I don't have any pictures handy but can take some if if anyone is interested?

    On old frames there would be a beam that had a series of circles scribed into it with a compass. These circles were reference for laying out the joinery on the whole frame. Framers would set their compass from these circles as they laid out the joinery. You'll notice "the star of David" was laid out to get perfectly square sides , and ends on the beams. Laying out braces with a compass/divider is a little more involved, but you can make perfect 45 degree braces, or 30 60 degree braces, and layout their mortices too.

    Here are a couple of sketches I did showing layout of posts and beams for a timber frame.

    post and tie-1.pdf

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1 post and tie layout.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	11.1 KB 
ID:	13740

    To learn, my first project was a "timber framed" woodrack, for inside the house from some 4 X 4" ash I milled up ( cheated there milled not hewn). A few pictures showing the woodrack and some of the layout/joinery (circles/chalk lines) on the tie beams on the bottom. I used a shouldered M + T joint on the tie so it could handle the weight of a full rack of wood. Everything was square and the joinery tight.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	wood rack.jpg 
Views:	4 
Size:	97.3 KB 
ID:	13737

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	scb M+T 3.jpg 
Views:	4 
Size:	87.3 KB 
ID:	13738

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	scb Sh M+T.jpg 
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ID:	13739

    Hope I did not hijack your thread @Inor. I'll get some tool pictures next post.
    Not at all!!! This is GREAT stuff!

    I never learned much about timber. That is a whole 'nother skill level beyond my capabilities.

    I learned furniture making (both by hand and machine) and that led to learning cabinetry out of necessity. Yes I know, usually it works the other way around. I finally have enough done on the homestead that I can finally devote some time to updating my shop including upgrading some machines and reviving a bunch of old hand tools I have been putting off.
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    PISSED OFF Mad Trapper's Avatar
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    The guy, Richard Babcock, I learned about TF from did it for many years. He did things the old ways. I wish I had gotten to do some restorations of old houses/barns with him. People who run the Timber Framing Guild learned from him.

    Some of the buildings were 1600s. Some huge barns that he took down and raised using gin poles to lift the timbers.

    I have some pictures from his books. Dick has passed but he gave me permission to post pictures from his work with proper attribution.

    This is a HUGE german barn from Hudson valley NY, Dick took down, restored and put back up in Va. It's the building used for Wolftrap Performing Arts Center. The middle bent has a clear 40 foot span, using what they call a swing beam. That beam is 14 X 18 inches thick on the bottom cord, 10 X 12 inches top cord. That span was incorporated so wagons could drive inside the barn and be able to turn around, without having a post in the way.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is how to layout a brace using a compass/divider. Note you can do layout with irregular/hewn/curved wood. This is for a 45 degree brace ( 1, 1, root of 2 triangle). This is my own work, figured it out from what Dick taught me.

    Layout is based on the big circle (dia = dept of the brace) and the triangles derived from it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Mad Trapper; 04-06-2021 at 04:33 AM.

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  18. #10
    VIP Member! Big Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inor View Post
    On E-Bay, they are selling for $200-$300 for a really nice one. Now if you can find a Stanley No 1, even in crappy shape they are north of $1000!
    Well that'll be worth keeping an eye out for.
    dramey82

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