Central Bank Digital Currency ??

[MountainGirl]

Disclaimer: Before I comment, I just want to clarify... I have only been accumulating Bitcoin and buying things with it for about 6 months. Before that, I spent about a year studying up on it trying to figure out how it works and satisfying myself about its validity and security. So... I am by no means an expert! The information I give should be taken as nothing more than a somewhat informed (or possibly misinformed) opinion.

Let's take the discussion of crypto (Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc.) separately from the discussion of CBDCs. They are completely different animals.

If you have a cyrpto account using a custodial wallet with a company like Robinhood or Coinbase (what I call "online"), you really do not own ANY crypto yourself. What you really own is a legal claim on some amount of crypto that is owned by the custodian. You can direct them to send some amount of Bitcoin to somebody else and they will send it (probably), but it is not directly in your control. My opinion is, if you want to trade crypto like you would trade stocks (I.E. buy $10,000 of Ethereum today and sell it next month for $15,000), having a custodial account is the way to go. It is easier, quicker and the custodian keeps track of all the paperwork for your accountant at the end of the year.

With a non-custodial wallet you actually OWN the crypto yourself. You buy it, in my case through a broker that owns it now. They get the address of my wallet, transfer it to my wallet, then it is mine as soon as the transaction clears the Bitcoin network. Clearing the transaction can take anywhere from a couple minutes to several hours, but once the transaction has cleared, the crypto is mine and there is nothing anybody can do prevent me from accessing it and doing whatever I want with it.

Using a non-custodial wallet, the government, nor anybody else, can prevent me from transferring it to whomever I want. The key to understanding that part is understanding the nature of crypto is really the Ledger (called the blockchain). The Ledger is a record of every transaction ever performed with a crypto since the beginning. The desirable feature of Bitcoin, Ethereum and others is the fact that the Ledger is not kept in one place. Copies of the Ledger are distributed across millions of servers all over the world. If the Ledger on any of the servers do not match the master Ledgers on all the other servers, the errant server is simply ignored by the Bitcoin network. So if the government wanted to prevent me from accessing my Bitcoin, they could not just prevent it on a couple servers; they would have to prevent it on every single server on the entire Bitcoin network all over the world simultaneously. That is simply not going to happen.

Also, if the power goes off and shut down all the Bitcoin servers in an area, all of the other servers everywhere else in the world will keep the network active and keep the Ledger current. When the power comes back for the affected servers, they are updated with all of the activity that happened while they were offline and they begin participating in the network again. So even if we get hit with an EMP, the network continues. An EMP would have to shut down the entire world all at the same time to kill the network. (If that happens, losing a couple thousand dollars in my crypto wallet is going to be the least of my concerns.)

That is not to say, Bitcoin or Ethereum is a panacea. The Ledger, while distributed, is also public. Anybody can see any transaction. But individual transactions are somewhat hidden, first by sheer volume and second by the fact that each transaction is only associated with a wallet id and not the identity of a human or company. Like I said in my previous post, the government has shown some ability to be able to piece together wallet ids and associate them with actual people. But you have to figure, even if we were using Bitcoin to buy and sell meth, how much volume would we have to be doing before it would rise to level where it is worth their time to follow it up with as much research as would be required to put the pieces together? In my case, buying a truckload of animal feed and a meal here or there is simply not worth their hassle. But something like Monero, which is supposed to be totally untraceable, will be great if it gains widespread use.

Right, so far I'm with you.

Q: After you purchase crypto through a broker, there is no other party/entity/etc involved in decision-making (allowing or not); it's a straight you>feed mill exchange. Does the transaction itself write to the Ledger?

Wait. Stop. Oh hell. There's more than one Ledger. Ok. That makes more sense. My incorrect picture was one big Ledger, like one set of tracks with many trains trying to jump on it... each vulnerable (in some way) to fed control/regulation/shut down/etc.

Other than the fact that it is digital, a Central Bank Digital Currency is a completely different thing. With a CBDC, the Ledger is centralized under the control of the central bank and/or government only. They are the clearinghouse for all transactions. If they decide that we should not be able to buy whatever, they can prevent it because all transactions go through their single Ledger.

Using the train/track analogy - CBDC wants to be the only set of rails so they can control transactions. Hmmm. Don't see how CBDC could 'shut down' other existing tracks, but I can see a lot of ways they can derail the end-users, us and vendors, etc.

I wonder if, after getting our SocSec deposited onto their train, we could go buy non-CBDC crypto with it - on a different 'track'.

I do not know what excuse the UK is using for their new script, but they are a completely fucked up country anyway. The last time I was there was at least 7-8 years ago and they were docile as a beat dog back then. I can only imagine it has gotten worse since. But starting tomorrow, their old paper notes are worthless. I assume the coins are still okay?

Stockpiling too much cash would make me nervous. If the Fed does decide to do a Bank of England where we have to trade in our notes or lose them and you walk into your local bank with $50,000 in a paper bag (particularly in a border state)... I am just going to spread things out amongst a variety of assets - some Bitcoin, some Ethereum, maybe a few others, some gold, some silver, etc. Plus, we have been buying a lot of productive assets since we moved to AZ - tractor, chicken setup, beef setup, soon to be pig setup, etc. No one thing looks like much and if they figure out a way to lock us out of one thing, it does not hurt quite so much. But that is just me, your milage may vary.

Agree, and I think that's about all one can do right now.

Thank you, Inor, for helping me understand - and for sharing all your lengthy research with us. Much to consider.

[Slippy]

I don't think I am smart enough to invest in crypto-stuffs...
My head after I read the last few posts...

[MountainGirl]

I don't think I am smart enough to invest in crypto-stuffs...
My head after I read the last few posts...

I'm hoping I'm smart enough to stay the hell away from it all.
Think what I'll soon do is spend most all my money on ammo, smokes, booze and a new pair of jeans...

[Inor]

Right, so far I'm with you.

Q: After you purchase crypto through a broker, there is no other party/entity/etc involved in decision-making (allowing or not); it's a straight you>feed mill exchange. Does the transaction itself write to the Ledger?

You are correct. And yes, every transaction I make, buying the Bitcoin as well as paying whomever eventually ends up recorded in the Ledger/blockchain.

Wait. Stop. Oh hell. There's more than one Ledger. Ok. That makes more sense. My incorrect picture was one big Ledger, like one set of tracks with many trains trying to jump on it... each vulnerable (in some way) to fed control/regulation/shut down/etc.

Nope. The feds cannot stop any transaction. They probably can track transactions that happened in the past if they want to spend the time, energy and money to do it. But they cannot interdict anything.

Using the train/track analogy - CBDC wants to be the only set of rails so they can control transactions. Hmmm. Don't see how CBDC could 'shut down' other existing tracks, but I can see a lot of ways they can derail the end-users, us and vendors, etc.

Exactly! They will want as much as they can going through the CBDC since they can easily control/track those transactions. Using cryptocurrencies (if they are on a distributed blockchain/Ledger of course), there is basically nothing they can do to prevent any transaction. The best they can do in that situation, is track past transactions, maybe. If we get a truly secure, distributed crypto (what Monero claims to be), then even the tracking would become impossible or at least, much more difficult.

I wonder if, after getting our SocSec deposited onto their train, we could go buy non-CBDC crypto with it - on a different 'track'.

I do not see why you couldn't. As long as you can find somebody that owns whatever crypto you want and is willing it to trade it for CBDC-bucks, you should be good to go.

[Prepared One]

I don't think I am smart enough to invest in crypto-stuffs...
My head after I read the last few posts...

I am with ya, I think I'll take my two cents and go home.

[T-Man 1066]

I tried watching some YT videos on crypto, specificly the "mining".. completely over this dumb hillbilly's head...

If I made something, and the buyer was offering to pay me in crypto, I would decline, I don't understand how to use it... or recognize the value.

Lets stay with currency I understand. Cash, 5 gallon buckets, beer, tools, etc...

[MountainGirl]

...
Nope. The feds cannot stop any transaction. They probably can track transactions that happened in the past if they want to spend the time, energy and money to do it. But they cannot interdict anything.

... Using (non-CBDC) cryptocurrencies (if they are on a distributed blockchain/Ledger of course), there is basically nothing they (Feds) can do to prevent any transaction. The best they can do in that situation, is track past transactions, maybe. If we get a truly secure, distributed crypto (what Monero claims to be), then even the tracking would become impossible or at least, much more difficult.

Here is where I strongly disagree. Recall in your earlier post how not all vendors accept Monero? That tells me vendors have a choice about which crypto they'll accept and which ones they wont. I can see how that could easily evolve from 'wont' to 'cant'. What would stop the Fed from regulating vendors - via licensing/tax/etc regulations - to accept CBDC coin only?

I do agree, however, that as long as vendors are willing to continue with non-Fed crypto - all should be well. That said, the Fed has a lot of ways to stand on someone's neck. Or kneel, as the case may be. I really like the de-centralization; and, this could all devolve into a workable 'barter' type situation (small unregulated sellers; black market, anyone? LOL). But for most of the commercial operations, like your feed store? Would they risk accepting federally disallowed crypto?

(Regarding buying non-CBDC with CBDC coins)
I do not see why you couldn't. As long as you can find somebody that owns whatever crypto you want and is willing it to trade it for CBDC-bucks, you should be good to go.

Find somebody? Not sure who would even want to do that - as it would enable Feds to see a non-CBDC source for the purchase... and their crypto vanishing into the ether... all of which could red-flag a possible money laundering situation/investigation.
Then again - maybe I'll sell our CBDC-bucks to YOU ! How does 50 cents on the dollar sound? You'll be rich!!

[Jester-ND]

This is what y'all need to buy....

https://www.jmbullion.com/1-oz-infla...ampaign=Criteo

inflation is coming unleash the beast silver round

[1skrewsloose]

This is what y'all need to buy....

https://www.jmbullion.com/1-oz-infla...ampaign=Criteo

inflation is coming unleash the beast silver round

I wouldn't allow that thing in my house.

[Inor]

Here is where I strongly disagree. Recall in your earlier post how not all vendors accept Monero? That tells me vendors have a choice about which crypto they'll accept and which ones they wont. I can see how that could easily evolve from 'wont' to 'cant'. What would stop the Fed from regulating vendors - via licensing/tax/etc regulations - to accept CBDC coin only?

I do agree, however, that as long as vendors are willing to continue with non-Fed crypto - all should be well. That said, the Fed has a lot of ways to stand on someone's neck. Or kneel, as the case may be. I really like the de-centralization; and, this could all devolve into a workable 'barter' type situation (small unregulated sellers; black market, anyone? LOL). But for most of the commercial operations, like your feed store? Would they risk accepting federally disallowed crypto?



Find somebody? Not sure who would even want to do that - as it would enable Feds to see a non-CBDC source for the purchase... and their crypto vanishing into the ether... all of which could red-flag a possible money laundering situation/investigation.
Then again - maybe I'll sell our CBDC-bucks to YOU ! How does 50 cents on the dollar sound? You'll be rich!!

I am not trying to sell you on this being the way you should go. I am not even suggesting crypto is THE solution to get away from the government (yet).

Like you, I was looking for a way to continue to be able to buy and sell with a minimum of government interference. Cash is not a good option, especially in an inflationary environment. Gold and Silver are impractical and extremely expensive for small day-to-day purchases. Barter? No! Just No!!! So far, Bitcoin and Bitcoin-Cash for small transactions and Ethereum for large transactions seem to be the best options I can find. If somebody else has a better idea, I'm all ears!

But, at the same time, I agree 100% with T-Man. If you have not taken the time to understand it and get comfortable with it, you should not be messing with crypto, ESPECIALLY investing in it!!! Hell, I do not want anything to do with investing in it and I live for math and statistics (which is right in the wheelhouse of crypto investing). For now, it is a totally unregulated market with a lot of scammers surrounding it and you can lose your ass in a heartbeat if you are not careful!

As far as watching YouTube videos about it, especially the videos made by "miners", don't waste your time. Most of the miners are fools. They are really only focused on how to start and run a mining business. That is a completely different focus than using it for trading goods and services and requires a completely different understanding. And frankly, most of the folks that are into mining are just bullshit artists who are looking to make a quick buck without doing anything.