Bond Arms Backup

[Arklatex]

I like the idea of a .45 Colt derringer. Point of fact I happen to love just about anything in .45 Colt. However the idea of firing a .410 as a defensive cartridge borders on lunacy to me. The .410 in my mind is a squirrel cartridge not a man stopper, why would anyone in their right mind fire a squirrel cartridge from a handgun designed to fire a proven man stopper? A .45 Colt firing a 255gr hard cast lead RNFP at somewhere between 800-900fps would be just about the perfect defensive handgun. You'd loose some velocity from the shorter barrel but it's still nothing to sneeze at.

-Infidel

For starters, there are several modern loads that have been specifically created for use as self defense shells from short barrel handguns. Ever since the Judge/Governor gained in popularity. Secondly, you have folks like me that love to bank fish in areas rife with cottonmouths, copperhead, etc. A pocket size pistol that is easy to carry fits the bill in that situation. And will also chamber the 45 if you want more stopping power...

[RubberDuck]

Many deer has been taken with 410 slug I would say if will drop a deer it will drop a man .

[juskom95]

I like the idea of a .45 Colt derringer. Point of fact I happen to love just about anything in .45 Colt. However the idea of firing a .410 as a defensive cartridge borders on lunacy to me. The .410 in my mind is a squirrel cartridge not a man stopper, why would anyone in their right mind fire a squirrel cartridge from a handgun designed to fire a proven man stopper? A .45 Colt firing a 255gr hard cast lead RNFP at somewhere between 800-900fps would be just about the perfect defensive handgun. You'd loose some velocity from the shorter barrel but it's still nothing to sneeze at.

-Infidel

There are several versions of .410 rounds specifically designed for self-defense uses, fired from handguns and not shotguns.

[Infidel]

For starters, there are several modern loads that have been specifically created for use as self defense shells from short barrel handguns. Ever since the Judge/Governor gained in popularity. Secondly, you have folks like me that love to bank fish in areas rife with cottonmouths, copperhead, etc. A pocket size pistol that is easy to carry fits the bill in that situation. And will also chamber the 45 if you want more stopping power...

One of the few uses I could envision for a .410 load in that gun. CCI still makes snake shot cartridges in .45 Colt although loaded with #9 shot, I can see where a .410 shell loaded with say #6 might be a better snake deterrent.

Many deer has been taken with 410 slug I would say if will drop a deer it will drop a man .

Ah but will it do it any better than the .45 Colt? Not likely, and plenty of deer have been dropped with the .45 Colt over the years also. I'll also add that none of those deer were killed by a .410 slug fired from a 2" barrel, does that change the equation any, let's just say I'm not betting my life on it. I'm not arguing the merits of the .410, my point was that firing a .410 as a defensive round from a firearm designed to fire the .45 Colt is a bit strange. I'll also add that in a 2 1/2" shell the largest slug I've found listed is 1/4oz. By my math that equates to a slug in the neighborhood of 109gr (7000gr per pound/16oz/4=109.375) not even half the weight of the original .45 Colt loading.

There are several versions of .410 rounds specifically designed for self-defense uses, fired from handguns and not shotguns.

True enough but I'm not entirely convinced of the merits of them over the .45 Colt. What's the purpose and where do they excel over the Colt? I'll admit that I'm well enough versed on that subject but from what I've seen none of them penetrates as deeply as the Colt with the exception of maybe a .410 slug (maybe).

[RubberDuck]

One of the few uses I could envision for a .410 load in that gun. CCI still makes snake shot cartridges in .45 Colt although loaded with #9 shot, I can see where a .410 shell loaded with say #6 might be a better snake deterrent.

Ah but will it do it any better than the .45 Colt? Not likely, and plenty of deer have been dropped with the .45 Colt over the years also. I'll also add that none of those deer were killed by a .410 slug fired from a 2" barrel, does that change the equation any, let's just say I'm not betting my life on it. I'm not arguing the merits of the .410, my point was that firing a .410 as a defensive round from a firearm designed to fire the .45 Colt is a bit strange. I'll also add that in a 2 1/2" shell the largest slug I've found listed is 1/4oz. By my math that equates to a slug in the neighborhood of 109gr (7000gr per pound/16oz/4=109.375) not even half the weight of the original .45 Colt loading.

True enough but I'm not entirely convinced of the merits of them over the .45 Colt. What's the purpose and where do they excel over the Colt? I'll admit that I'm well enough versed on that subject but from what I've seen none of them penetrates as deeply as the Colt with the exception of maybe a .410 slug (maybe).

No doubt the 45lc is superior that was never questioned.
What was said is the 410 as defense was basically silly for a squirrel round.
My point was it really is more than just a squirrel round. Ture it mayhave never killed a deer out of a two inch barrel but then again I have never been attacked by a deer to use a belly gun on it either...
All Derringer style pistols in any caliber are nothing more then last resort belly guns.
Unless they are the long barrel version.

[hawgrider]

Pretty sure I don't want to be hit with .410 anything.

[juskom95]

Pretty sure I don't want to be hit with .410 anything.

I don't want to be hit by a 22lr either!

[Infidel]

No doubt the 45lc is superior that was never questioned.
What was said is the 410 as defense was basically silly for a squirrel round.
My point was it really is more than just a squirrel round. Ture it mayhave never killed a deer out of a two inch barrel but then again I have never been attacked by a deer to use a belly gun on it either...
All Derringer style pistols in any caliber are nothing more then last resort belly guns.
Unless they are the long barrel version.

Actually what I said was:
"However the idea of firing a .410 as a defensive cartridge borders on lunacy to me. The .410 in my mind is a squirrel cartridge not a man stopper, why would anyone in their right mind fire a squirrel cartridge from a handgun designed to fire a proven man stopper?" bold type added for emphasis.

My point specifically was in firing a .410 from a handgun designed for the .45 Colt. I thought I made that clear in the second sentence, in hindsight, maybe not. While the .410 may suffice as a deer cartridge in some form (and I'm not disputing that) I personally don't see any advantage in firing a .410 over the .45 Colt, the exception to that being snake killing. Actually I'm quite sure that the .410 has even been used as a defensive round from some kid's squirrel gun but why on earth would you choose to load a .410 over a .45 Colt in a handgun designed to take both? Well I suppose it doesn't really matter anyway, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and can do whatever they like with their own guns. Me, I've no use for a .410 shell in a derringer but a .45 Colt or even an ACP would make a damned fine backup gun.



-Infidel

[hawgrider]

Actually what I said was:
"However the idea of firing a .410 as a defensive cartridge borders on lunacy to me. The .410 in my mind is a squirrel cartridge not a man stopper, why would anyone in their right mind fire a squirrel cartridge from a handgun designed to fire a proven man stopper?" bold type added for emphasis.

My point specifically was in firing a .410 from a handgun designed for the .45 Colt. I thought I made that clear in the second sentence, in hindsight, maybe not. While the .410 may suffice as a deer cartridge in some form (and I'm not disputing that) I personally don't see any advantage in firing a .410 over the .45 Colt, the exception to that being snake killing. Actually I'm quite sure that the .410 has even been used as a defensive round from some kid's squirrel gun but why on earth would you choose to load a .410 over a .45 Colt in a handgun designed to take both? Well I suppose it doesn't really matter anyway, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and can do whatever they like with their own guns. Me, I've no use for a .410 shell in a derringer but a .45 Colt or even an ACP would make a damned fine backup gun.



-Infidel

.410 buckshot in the house in the dark hallway... aiming in the dark with the .45 colt would be could be more difficult for some.. say a really old person who has very poor eyesight and shakey hands. Several hits with .410 buckshot thru a Judge is better than several misses with a .45 colt round ?

[Infidel]

.410 buckshot in the house in the dark hallway... aiming in the dark with the .45 colt would be could be more difficult for some.. say a really old person who has very poor eyesight and shakey hands. Several hits with .410 buckshot thru a Judge is better than several misses with a .45 colt round ?

Yep you're right several hits with .410 buckshot would be better than several misses with the .45 Colt. We can leave discussions about the scenarios presented for another day.